Old bottle of Jameson

[farrfitz1]

Was wondering if anyone can tell me what this bottle is worth.

[TheWhiskeyBro]

Hi there, couple of extra questions on this bottle,

Does the lead capsule have any lettering on top, and what if any are the markings on the base?

Any information as to provenance would be helpful, age history etc from your perspective would be useful.

[farrfitz1]

Thanks whiskeybro will check it out this weekend when i get home.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Interesting Bottle ... not 100% sure but the bottle looks old-ish


Firstly it is minimum pre 1952 because it is labelled "To His Majesty The King"

these are the dates times lines we have to play with

Edward VII (1901-10)
George V (1910-36)
Edward VIII (1936) the King that never became King
George VI (1936-52)


I very much doubt that it is Edward VII 1901-10 as it possible too early for this label even though the bottle type might fit as it looks old but it's hard to tell. Basically we just don't see bottles from this era. However this version of the label did not change much for a very long time.

So possibly early George VI or George V as my gut feeling would be pre WWII. However would need a closer look.

Value is another very hard one as the market is a bit depressed and it depends on available buyers. This on ebay would probably fetch only 2-300Euro but would command a lot more in a specialist retailers shop. But selling on the open market you would not get a retailers price. It's all down to luck and meeting the right person to sell it to.

Where did you get it or how did you come by it ... do you have any provenance?

Are you UK or Ireland based?

[JohnM]

I think it's George V. Are there other Jameson bottles produced by appointment to any other king? I have a bottle of Jameson I got in CWS "By Appointment to the late King George V".

[rathbeggan]

Is it possible that the coat of arms varies from monarch to monarch and you could identify the king on that basis? I don't know enough about heraldry to say.

The capsule is very shiny in the photo, but those who know about these things (and there are plenty of them on this forum) may think it looks OK. It could be just the camera flash, of course.

Re comments on another thread, I note 1780 is used on this label as the foundation date for the Jameson distillery.

[DublinGus]

Fill level very suspect IMHO, has it been recorked? Their is people out their who would pay over 700euros plus if legitimate. Have a look at http://whiskyauction.com/auction/vendor_e.html
Definately a collectable bottle!

[Good Whiskey Hunting]

I seen one last year going for just £130 in McTears auctions. I tried to bid on but was unable,due to poor internet coverage in the sticks. It was the late George V. I'll try attach a link.
http://mctears.com/auctions/lot.aspx?id ... rer=browse

Here one i found on Ebay but didn't like the look of the seal.it's from the states.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370572631629? ... _762wt_698

I've seen the lead seal like this before and believe it was resealed on that occasion.
The one thing that does look odd is the bottle.But these were done by bonders and came in various colours i guess.

The one on whiskyauctions.com site sold for €312 just to save you the search.

[farrfitz1]

Hi guys,
Thanks for all the prompt replys.Im pretty sure the bottle is genuine as i was allowed to pick any bottle (wine or whiskey) from a collectors cellar back in 1988 in San Francisco in lieu of a tip.Needless to say he had just hit the jackpot and was in a giving mood.What i was really more interested in was the age of the bottle so over the weekend i will upload better pictures and check it for distinguishing marks top and bottom. Once again thanks for all the replys.

[JohnM]

I would say it is genuine. If you get the right buyer it could be worth a good bit.

[TheWhiskeyBro]

Hi there,

'To His Majesty The King' was on Jameson bottles up until the 1940s,
No longer appeared from 1950 onwards for certain,
Bottle shape looks older,
Label (if a US bottle) does not have 'Sole Importer W.A. Taylor'
Nor is their a neck label 'Jameson Three Star' or a base label 'Not a drop is sold until its 7 years old'
The fill level is very high for a bottle this age (but not impossible),
The foil seal does not look right compared to what was used at the time [1910-1940],
I've never seen a silver seal on a Jameson bottle before,

So some positives and negatives, but will reserve my judgement until we have all the details.

Look forward to further information and helping you solve this mystery,

Regards

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Hi there,

Bottle shape looks older,

That is what I was thinking as the bottle does looks quite old i.e. early part of the century so from the shape it could be anything from the latey 1800's to late 1930's (Not sure about 40's???) But the label would not pre date 1900.

Hi there,

'To His Majesty The King' was on Jameson bottles up until the 1940s,

Label (if a US bottle) does not have 'Sole Importer W.A. Taylor'

I think the "To HM the King" would make this a British Empire Bottling so came from Ireland/England to the states.

This creates another conundrum why was this in the states, especially west coast? East coast you could say maybe by ship.

So it would have needed to have been brought into the US by someone travelling rather than it being part of a commercial enterprise (i.e. W>A> Taylor). So was it brought in during Prohibition during the swinging 20's into the early 30's. For me it looks that period but as mentioned the fill level is very high for a 70-90 year old bottle .... so that is why your getting a lot of mixed views .... who knows.

I think the capsule may be the key here ... if you can find any printed information on the capsule ...

Here one i found on Ebay but didn't like the look of the seal.it's from the states.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370572631629? ... _762wt_698

Yes, wouldn't touch that with a barge pole ... A Tax Stamp but no foil

And the cork top seems to come out over the bottle lip a tad too much ... very suspect

[JohnM]

I've also come across bottles with the tax stamp across the bottle top, but with no foil and they are definitely genuine, because I've tasted them. I have one here in front of me - the "Late King George V" one.

I think there's very few Irish forgeries, although I know there are some. But there's more money to be made forging scotch whisky.

[JohnM]

I've also come across bottles with the tax stamp across the bottle top, but with no foil and they are definitely genuine, because I've tasted them. I have one here in front of me - the "Late King George V" one.

I think there's very few Irish forgeries, although I know there are some. But there's more money to be made forging scotch whisky.

What I mean is, the plastic cover goes over the tax stamp, but they are very fragile and can fall off.

[DublinGus]

I think Whiskeychaser could have hit the nail on the head dating it to prohibition, bootleggers/criminal gangs often used their own whiskey and bottles and stuck an Irish label on them, giving Irish whiskey a terrible reputation after prohibition was lifted. Making this bottle even more unique IMHO.

[DublinGus]

Here one i found on Ebay but didn't like the look of the seal.it's from the states.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370572631629? ... _762wt_698

Yes, wouldn't touch that with a barge pole ... A Tax Stamp but no foil

And the cork top seems to come out over the bottle lip a tad too much ... very suspect [/quote]




You can see this bottle has been opened, still some foil on the neck, fill level too low as well, someone has had a nip he just stuck a tax stamp over the top and said it was never opened. Look before you leap on ebay

[JohnM]

These bottles came with a plastic cover over the tax stamp, not like the foil ones. The plastic perishes over time and the seal is intact. I have had several of these bottles, some with the plastic falling off, some with it still on and some with just the tax strip. Now it's possible that it was opened, but I think there's a bit too much suspicion. Not sure it's fair on the seller to be saying for sure he or she is selling fakes or opened bottles, when most likely he's not.

I will try to find my bottles and take a picture.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

These bottles came with a plastic cover over the tax stamp, not like the foil ones. The plastic perishes over time and the seal is intact. I have had several of these bottles, some with the plastic falling off, some with it still on and some with just the tax strip. Now it's possible that it was opened, but I think there's a bit too much suspicion. Not sure it's fair on the seller to be saying for sure he or she is selling fakes or opened bottles, when most likely he's not.

I will try to find my bottles and take a picture.

John, can you have a good look at the cork and compare it to one of yours. That is what I was most suspicious about.

Good to know either way. It's sold now so I don't think our conversation affected the sale ... unless some one here was thinking to buy.

[JohnM]

Ah yeah, I just mean for the fella's reputation in general. The corks are the same. They're a cork with a plastic top, kind of ribbed (or else it's wood). The one I have in front of me I changed the cork, because it shrunk, so I used one from another bottle. I have a few in the attic and another one here somewhere among the rest. I'll try to dig them out. My filing skills are not very good.

Actually, the one I'm looking at was waxed. And the wax stops where the old plastic cover would have started - the wax also covers the bottom of the tax stamp - the bit that would have been exposed from the cover.

[JohnM]

Look at this one... Hope the author doesn't mind...

[thomassale21]

I'm in the market for older bottle such as this one. Are you interested in selling it?

[JRB]

Hi all,

New to the forum; enjoyed reading many of the old posts. A question related to this thread... sorry if I've missed it. I have bottles that say both "By appointment to H.M. The King" and also "By appointment to the late King George V".

Anyone have any information on what sets these apart? I've always wondered.

[Good Whiskey Hunting]

Hi JRB, welcome.
The late king George is easy to date, He died in 1936. Here the link to a picture to compare yours too.

http://mctears.com/auctions/lot.aspx?id ... rer=browse

By Appointment to H.M the King could have a few options.
They stopped putting it on bottles in 1952 from what was said above.

I only wish i'd got a bottle or two to look at myself. I would love the chance to compare like for like with the current bottling.
If you feel the need to open one give me a shout .
Cheers
Willie

[JRB]

Thanks! So the "late King George V" is 1936 or shortly thereafter. Do you know if they used "HM the King" for more than one King? (i.e. George V and VI) and thus it could be before or after that time, or was it more specific to the latter?

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Thanks! So the "late King George V" is 1936 or shortly thereafter. Do you know if they used "HM the King" for more than one King? (i.e. George V and VI) and thus it could be before or after that time, or was it more specific to the latter?

It would date it directly to 1936 ...

George the V died in 1936 then Edward VIII was supposed to follow but that did not come to pass and George VI then took up the reigns.

Time line

George V (1910-1936, died 20 January 1936)
Edward VIII (1936) was King but abdicated because of the uproar of his choice to marry a divorcee so it may be during this period that bottles had to the late King George V
George VI (1936-52)