Irish whiskey of the year - whisky bible

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

.... That said the Midleton VR's can be quite dark for something matured in bourbon cask only.

I asked this in midleton and it is in part down to the toasting but alot of colour(and the majority of the flavour) comes from the wood. So some of the better bourbon barrels give up quite a deep colour. I think we are so used to seeing single casks very pale in colour and the more I here from Midleton the more I think alot of this single casks are either inferior wood or second fill bourbon. Midletons cask management and selection seems to be second to none. It's quite extraordinary what they do down there.

[IainB]

Yeah that does make sense. If bourbon barrells weren't capable of giving colour then how would you explain the dark colour of bourbon. But I think we may be onto something here - a lot of older single casks are refill and for a very good reason. A first fill cask could probably overpower the whiskey more quickly than a 2nd or 3rd fill. If you think of some of the really old whiskeys out the - the 25 - 40 yr old - most of these as far as I've noticed, have been refill casks.

Which in one sense shows the nonsense of the whole age statement obsession - if whiskey matures more quickly in a 1st fill the how can you compare a 12yo first fill to a 12yo second fill.

Also, and in particular with reference to Midleton, the colour and sweetness effect of a new bourbon barrell on a relatively light whiskey could, I suppose, give the impression that caramel is involved. Though JM should know better.

And I agree, we probably don't give IDL enough credit - they've been way ahead of even Scotland in pioneering wood policy.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Which in one sense shows the nonsense of the whole age statement obsession - if whiskey matures more quickly in a 1st fill the how can you compare a 12yo first fill to a 12yo second fill.

Yes and this is something IDL have always said ... it's the quality of the whiskey not the age of the whiskey. This I always took as a bit of marketing but now after having a chance to talk to David Quinn (Master of Science), Billy Leighton (Master Blender) last week & even Barry Crocket (Master Distiller) briefly at the PPS trasting I now believe that they worry more about the quality than the age.

Also, and in particular with reference to Midleton, the colour and sweetness effect of a new bourbon barrell on a relatively light whiskey could, I suppose, give the impression that caramel is involved. Though JM should know better.

Yes there are plenty of caramel flavours in lots of whiskeys (not just midletons) that I get and there are not chill filtered or coloured but the caramel charachter is there all the same. It is only the fact it is writen on the bottle that people don't even mention the caramel taste for fear people get the wrong impression.

And I agree, we probably don't give IDL enough credit - they've been way ahead of even Scotland in pioneering wood policy.

Could not agree with you more

[JohnM]

Yeah that does make sense. If bourbon barrells weren't capable of giving colour then how would you explain the dark colour of bourbon. But I think we may be onto something here - a lot of older single casks are refill and for a very good reason. A first fill cask could probably overpower the whiskey more quickly than a 2nd or 3rd fill. If you think of some of the really old whiskeys out the - the 25 - 40 yr old - most of these as far as I've noticed, have been refill casks.

Which in one sense shows the nonsense of the whole age statement obsession - if whiskey matures more quickly in a 1st fill the how can you compare a 12yo first fill to a 12yo second fill.

Also, and in particular with reference to Midleton, the colour and sweetness effect of a new bourbon barrell on a relatively light whiskey could, I suppose, give the impression that caramel is involved. Though JM should know better.

And I agree, we probably don't give IDL enough credit - they've been way ahead of even Scotland in pioneering wood policy.

I'm not sure when tasters say they can detect caramel in a whisky they are referring to the sweetness, as I don't think spirit caramel colouring is sweet - it would be quite bitter. Nor am I sure that they are detecting the caramel additive at all, but I don't know, as I have never had two identical whiskeys with one altered with caramel. But some say it stops a whisky short - flattens the development of the flavours.

Oak does impart some sweetness on a whisk(e)y. Most of the caramel flavours you get in whisky comes from the wood, I think. I am not sure I've ever had new spirit with all that much caramel flavour in it, although maybe others have. It's usually fruity esters I get.

I get burnt sugar in a lot of Irish whiskey, and I love this flavour. The cell walls of organic material like wood is made up of cellulose, which contains chains of glucose. And as they char this in bourbon barrels, maybe this gives the burnt sugar taste. Just speculating.

Legally, with Scotch anyway, you can't put an amount of this colouring in the spirit that is discernible. How you judge this, I don't know.

[IainB]

I remember Noel Sweeney saying at one stage they add some but it can't be tasted. Of course he would say that.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

I get burnt sugar in a lot of Irish whiskey, and I love this flavour.

That's from the caramel additive

[IainB]

John, I will gladly sell you a saucepan full of 2010 vintage burnt sugar for a reasonable price. But only because I'm feeling generous. You need to supply the sugar and the saucepan though. I will return the finished product to you in due course.

[JohnM]

John, I will gladly sell you a saucepan full of 2010 vintage burnt sugar for a reasonable price. But only because I'm feeling generous. You need to supply the sugar and the saucepan though. I will return the finished product to you in due course.

What about a swap, for some limited edition Pepsi Max? I believe it's worth 1,500 euro.

[DavidH]

I get burnt sugar in a lot of Irish whiskey

Along with coffee and cream, perhaps?

[IainB]

John, I will gladly sell you a saucepan full of 2010 vintage burnt sugar for a reasonable price. But only because I'm feeling generous. You need to supply the sugar and the saucepan though. I will return the finished product to you in due course.

What about a swap, for some limited edition Pepsi Max? I believe it's worth 1,500 euro.

Don't know. This is my rarest vintage burnt sugar reserve. Or at least it will be when you give me the sugar.

[JohnM]

I actually got coffee all over Whisky: A Global History today.

[JohnM]

Jim Murray this year has tasted more Arrans than the entire Irish whiskey sector, much more. Very disappointing.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Jim Murray this year has tasted more Arrans than the entire Irish whiskey sector, much more. Very disappointing.

And I find Arran a fairly Dissappointing distillery to be quite honest ... I was totally under whelmed by the Arran tasting last year ... how does he rate the Arrans in general? High ... medium or Low.

[JohnM]

Pretty high, in general. I didn't like the Arrans the first time I tried them, but the older ones are getting better and better, I think (not that I've tried a huge amount of them).

[IainB]

By the way my edition arrived today and I noticed the Locke's Grand and Premier Cru were bottled by the Irish Whisky Society.

Who are these people and what have they done with our whiskey?

[JohnM]

I am the president, committee, member, treasurer and hon sec of the Irish Whisky Society. I'm also the CEO of Microsift.

[IainB]

Can I join? Have you got a website?

[JohnM]

Not only can you join, but you can be president, committee, member, treasurer and hon sec. I don't have a website, or a computer.

[DavidH]

Splitters!

[JohnM]

According to Sainsbury's, the Dún Léire Aged 8 Years has been discontinued...

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

According to Sainsbury's, the Dún Léire Aged 8 Years has been discontinued...

Maybe Cooley want their award winning malt back

[bredman]

When i picked up my bottle from Sainsbury earlier they were advertising the fact it was a big award winner in JM's bible - with a big sign. But guys, those of you that haven't tried it should. It's no complex whiskey, very simple in fact, but i can see why JM rates it. My notes -

N: Oranges, bitter oranges, more orange. Big malt barley. Oh and a whiff of sweet orange fruit cake. Not much else but it doesn't need it.

T: As above.

F: A bit on the short side, but more or less faultless.

They've gone easy on the E150, and the sulphur ( which i'm overly sensitive too ) is incredibly light to me, no problems here. Price as a consideration makes this an excellent buy.

[JohnM]

When i picked up my bottle from Sainsbury earlier they were advertising the fact it was a big award winner in JM's bible - with a big sign. But guys, those of you that haven't tried it should. It's no complex whiskey, very simple in fact, but i can see why JM rates it. My notes -

N: Oranges, bitter oranges, more orange. Big malt barley. Oh and a whiff of sweet orange fruit cake. Not much else but it doesn't need it.

T: As above.

F: A bit on the short side, but more or less faultless.

They've gone easy on the E150, and the sulphur ( which i'm overly sensitive too ) is incredibly light to me, no problems here. Price as a consideration makes this an excellent buy.

Sounds worth a purchase. Sure for £15 you can't go wrong. It also did well in the International Spirits Competition, or one of those spirits competitions... Thanks for the notes.

[JohnM]

Nicely packaged

Dun Leire