Redbreast 15yo drops in Price

[IainB]

Now €75 a bottle in the Celtic Whiskey Shop!

That's all I need say on that one.

[DavidH]

What was it before now, do you recall?

[varizoltan]

120

[TheWhiskeyBro]

It may be another new batch....

So we have
2005 Batch L53483071
2005 Batch L53273071
2008 Batch L819031119 (confirmed by IainB),
2009 Batch L933831276 (bottled 4.12.09) (confirmed by IainB)
2010 Batch L10??????? (Released Sep 2010, bottled earlier in 2010?)

Anyone for a head to head if we could assemble these five...

I'd hazard a guess that each batch is around 6,000 bottles.

[IainB]

It was originally €80 for the first batch, then €120, then €110 and now €75.

As for batch numbers:

L933831276

L819031119

[TheWhiskeyBro]

Thanks Iain for that, have you tried any head-to-head....

[IainB]

I have a few times but it's a while now - one of the 05's against one of the 09's. They're different alright - the 05 has a shade more rich sherry and is a little softer whereas the 09 has a hint of that mustiness you get from the Jamseon 15 - I'd say the recent one is slightly more old fashioned. Not huge differences but enough to be noticable. Never took account of which of the 95 batches I was tasting. As for the 08 - only got one so haven't opened it - I'm not sure where it cam from and I didn't even twig it was an 08 until Zoltan pointed it out. Never heard of it before or since. I'll find out from Ally if what's there now is a new batch.

[TheWhiskeyBro]

Well we can celebrate a price point the makes Redbreast 15 more accessible for the ordinary whiskey drinker who wants to try something superior!!!

[IainB]

I totally agree. It seems a far more reasonable price - it was still €120 in Midleton last time I was there so I guess IDL have had a rethink - it would be nice to see Jameson 18 and the RVR come down a bit more too!

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

This is excellent news and the price point is now more comparable to European and US prices. Even at 75 it is not going to make it fly out the door as you need to educate your whiskey buying public too but it is an excellent price and I can only congratulate IDL on this move.

And yes Iain, now all we need is for them to revisit Jameson Gold, 18yo & RVR price points in Ireland.

This is cause for celebration must get myself a new bottle asap and protect my 2005 stash .

[Luke Gough]

My 2005 stash of the 15YO is still sacrosanct.

[IainB]

Now here's a thought for the conspiracy theorists. When JRVR was first being discussed someone mentioned a price tag of aroung €250. We were all shocked and horrified. Then it came out at €400. Suppose you had a fantastic product and wanted to charge €250 but there was some resistence. Then suppose you thought, why not put in on the market for €400 first for a year or two, then drop it to €250. Then everyone will think it's a bargain.

When Redbreast 15 was €80 here at first we thought it was expensive. Then it went to €120. Now €75 seems pretty good.

That said, I'm very happy with the €75 price tag.

[DavidH]

There is a well-known marketing trick of releasing a luxury version at a very high price to make the next version down look reasonable. That's my theory on the RVR. It's not meant to be purchased, it's just there to make the rest of the range look affordable.

The price drop on the Redbreast suggests to me that IDL actually want people to buy this and taste it.

[JohnM]

I was at a marketing yoke for RVR before it was launched. Leo and Adrian were also there. Looking at labels and that kind of thing. I'm pretty sure they said RVR would be just above Midleton VR in terms of price and a figure of 150 euro might have been mentioned..

[Luke Gough]

€75.00 is about right - roll on RVR @ €150-!

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

I was at a marketing yoke for RVR before it was launched. Leo and Adrian were also there. Looking at labels and that kind of thing. I'm pretty sure they said RVR would be just above Midleton VR in terms of price and a figure of 150 euro might have been mentioned..

Yes, I remember John, can't remember what the suggested price was but 150 would have been more expensive than Midleton RV at the time but 250 rings a bell too so I'm not sure but when it came out at 400 we were all shocked and then angered that you could buy it in the states for $250 (i.e. under €200).

I think the Redbreast 15yo is something different ... it had suddenly become a bit of a cult whiskey and I don't think that IDL had an thoughts either way to re-release it at the time, hence the fact it was in big demand so they rasised up the price to the collectors price that Ally had calculated. Even a offlicence here in Galway had a bottle for 200Euro

However €75 now represents a reasonable price for a very good whiskey.

We often hear that they are low on stocks of older whiskey. That may be true but it is also a bit of nonsence in relation to hiking up prices. At the end of the day they have massive whiskey reserves and holding over limited stocked of older whiskey should not be a big deal as that is all they need to do is to keep a very small precentage to age long term.

Springbank for example released an 18yo a couple years ago after a long absence and it was very limited and sold out of stock very quickly yet we were able to get it in Ally's for €89.99. Yes Jameson 18yo is €125 which I infuriatingly bought one for €57 3 or 4 years ago in Amsterdam .

At the end of the day it is just whiskey and if I see an over priced whisk(e)y I know there are plenty of other fairly priced whisk(e)y in the market. Sometimes Irish Whiskey gives out this attitude that it is not in competition with scotch or other whiskies in Ireland but I fear that this may not be the case any more especially in the higher end market.

However IDL do seem to have turned a corner and I cannot but applaude them for a lovely line up in the Jameson range it really is a very strong line up now and with this news about RB 15 I can now publicly once again say I'm a big IDL fan

[TheWhiskeyBro]

Hi there, I agree with IWC, this is a positive development with the Jameson now having established a very solid stable of whiskies indeed.

With Redbreast now being confirmed as a regular but limited release we can look forward to enjoyed RB15 on a regular basis.

If we assume a batch is about 6,000 bottles (4,000l @ 46% equivalent to 3,400l assuming 56.8% at cask strength)
Let us also guess/pick at ratio of bourbon:sherry casks of 56%:44% (If a sherry butt was 500l and a bourbon barrel 190l)

Then (if your still with me ) I estimate it would take only 12 casks to make each batch, 9 bourbon barrels and 3 sherry butts.

Anyway my point is in terms of stock it wouldn't be a huge burden, of course in terms of selection, quality control, bottling, supply, marketing and distribution it requires a lot more effort and attention...

[JohnM]

The Redbreast 12 uses 2/3 sherry casks and 1/3 bourbon, from what I remember, but sometimes I don't remember so good. And if it's in casks, then the sherry ones are much larger. Anyway, there were three components in that tasting a few years ago. I think a first fill sherry, a second fill sherry and a bourbon.

Of course, the Redbreast 15 could be a significantly different recipe.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

If we assume a batch is about 6,000 bottles (4,000l @ 46% equivalent to 3,400l assuming 56.8% at cask strength)
Let us also guess/pick at ratio of bourbon:sherry casks of 56%:44% (If a sherry butt was 500l and a bourbon barrel 190l)

Then (if your still with me ) I estimate it would take only 12 casks to make each batch, 9 bourbon barrels and 3 sherry butts.

Anyway my point is in terms of stock it wouldn't be a huge burden, of course in terms of selection, quality control, bottling, supply, marketing and distribution it requires a lot more effort and attention...

Think you may need to re-evaluate you calculation.

A Bourbon Barrell = 190l correct but what about 15years of evapouration .... take compound evapouration of circa 2% annually = circa 140l

Then you have to figure out what size sherry casks they use as it could be Hogshead (230-240l) or But (480-500l) or possibly even Tun (double But).

Way too complicated for me to be trying tpo figure out ... but yes it should not be too much to set assid enough stock to suffice their entire aged range 15years and above.

[cathach]

Maith thú IDL. Is this a first? An Irish product actually dropping in price in Ireland? Is it a new batch?

I still have a few of the 2005 German release myself thankfully, haven't tried the 2009/2010 one myself.

[TheWhiskeyBro]

Can we have feedback from those who may have various batches open.... please provide your impressions and please do quote which batch on the Redbreast 15 Batch Thread

[TheWhiskeyBro]

What Does John Know joins in the Redbreast 15 batch debate

http://www.whatdoesjohnknow.com/2010/09 ... breast-12/

[IainB]

I notice there seems to be a preference emerging for the 2005 version vs the 2009 version. But in the context of the price drop I'd be interested to know has anyone tried the 2010 version yet - this could be different again!

As regard the 09 version I seem to be the only one one who found some echoes of the Jameson 15 PPS in it - has anyone noticed anything like that?

[TheWhiskeyBro]

Hi Iain I've asked John Hansell for details of which batch he is reviewing...

You should join the blog discussion and share your own thoughts seems to be generating some interesting views.

Will get to the bottom of these batches yet...

[IainB]

Aye, I should. I'll try and get to it.