Advice on Collectible Irish Whiskey

[kurtbenoit]

Hi guys, first post from me.
Anyway, looking for any advice out there on collectible Irish whiskey. I don't drink alcohol myself (gasp) but I do enjoy learning about whiskey in particular and have been reading up about it a lot lately. I've now decided to start a collection of my own. I look forward to the input.

[TheWhiskeyBro]

Welcome KurtBenoit,

You could do worse and start here on one of our members own pages.

http://www.irishwhiskeychaser.webs.com/

You could collect by single distillery such as Bushmills, Cooley or Midleton,

or if starting out you could begin to collect Kilbeggan distillery (one official bottling so far), or Dingle distillery (yet to commence distilling)

Alternatively you could collect by brand e.g. with Midleton Very Rare annual releases expensive but now difficult to find earlier vintages, alternatively Knappogue, Paddy, Powers, Tullamore Dew would make less expensive options.

Other options include miniatures, crocks, jugs etc for example you could have a collection of different items associated with a single brand.

Another area would be single casks from Bushmills, Connemara, Tyrconnell or Independents.

The most enjoyable aspect is to find a niche that appeals to you for some personal reason.

Irish Whiskey is collected in a much more limited way than scotch so it would not necessarily make a good investment, but can be enjoyable all the same.

[JohnM]

If I was starting today and wasn't focusing on anything in particular, I'd pick up the Kilbeggan batch 001, a Jameson 15 Millennium, a Bushmills Millennium and a Bushmills 400th anniversary. These are all pretty readily available at the moment. There are lots more, but this might be somewhere to start, within a budget.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Thanks for the plug Whiskey Bro

Hi kurtbenoit, my site won't help you figure out what is collectable or what is not but it will give you an idea what is around or has been around and you might be able to spot something to get you started.

Say for instance you decided to collect Knappogue Castle, it would not be a bad starting point if you want to start by brand names, as some think they look good together. See HERE & HERE

All I can say to you is read up as much as you can on Irish Whiskey and try and get an appreciation for the subject and that will give you a good standing to go forward. Also don't be afraid to ask plenty of questions.

You will come across stuff like OB's (Original Distillery Bottles) & IB's (Independent bottles). L codes (Small print on a bottle to date it), vintages versus age statements or even NAS (non age stated i.e. regular bog standard bottles Like Bush,ills white, Jameson Kilbeggan, Paddy & Powers). if you want clarification on anything you will find that probably at least one person here knows the answer or can give you a good educated guess.

Lastly, remember everything and anything is collectable but that is not to say it will gain in value.

[kurtbenoit]

Thanks for the advice lads. I appreciate it.

I picked up The Kilbeggan batch 001 a couple weeks ago, and got a Locke's Premier Cru Single Malt this week. Saw a couple of Bushmills during the week that I'm interested in. One was a single cask from 1990 and the other from 1992. (At least I think that's what they were, I was in a bit of a hurry)

I'll definitely look to pick up some of the early Midleton Very Rare. Also can anybody tell me just how many Bushmills Millenium malts were released. Different websites are giving me different numbers.

Last but not least, where should I be looking for collectible, less mainstream whiskeys? Obviously I've been to The Celtic Whiskey shop, and they've been quite helpful. As well as the shop opposite Trinity College, I think it's called Fox's. But is there other shops?, is it worth while visiting the distillery shops? any website that people can recommend?

Thanks

[JohnM]

There was the 24-year-old 1975 Bushmills Millennium, a 25-year-old 1975 Bushmills Millennium, a cask-strength 1975 24-year-old Bushmills Millennium, the 1608 12-year-old Bushmills millennium and the 1982 cask strength Bushmills millennium.

Foxes is the one on the Green. I think it's supplied by the Celtic Whiskey Shop, so it should have similar stock.

[TheWhiskeyBro]

In relation to the various Bushmills Millenium bottlings, there were 365 casks in total generally bottled as a 24 year old @ 43%

afaik two casks (casks 151 & 179) were specially bottled for the Bushmills Inn,

and at least one cask was bottled for World of Whiskey as a 25yo.

Some of the 24yo's were bottled at cask strength according to customer wishes e.g. cask 164 @ 49.1%.

I have identified at least 11 different single casks of the 1982 17yo Millenium 51.6%

Bushmills 1608 Reserve Millenium Edition was on general release for a short time.

[kurtbenoit]

Wow! I didn't realise there would be such a variation on the millenium malts. It's good to know I'm in the right place here anyway. You guys obviously know your stuff. Thanks again.

[JohnM]

Some of the 24yo's were bottled at cask strength according to customer wishes e.g. cask 164 @ 49.1%.

I'm open to correction on this, but I thought (heard) that only one cask was bottled at cask strength and that was due to some kind of admin cock-up.

Are there other cask strength 1975s?

[TheWhiskeyBro]

Hi John, I'm not sure? if that's what you heard your probably right, must keep an eye out to see if any others exist. Cheers Leo

[kurtbenoit]

I'm just reading about the new Tyrconnell, with it being a single cask, and the first from a red wine cask from Colley, would I be right in thinking it is collectible, or should I wait and see if more is released? I'm thinking I'll pick up a bottle either way.

[DavidH]

I'm just reading about the new Tyrconnell, with it being a single cask, and the first from a red wine cask from Colley, would I be right in thinking it is collectible, or should I wait and see if more is released? I'm thinking I'll pick up a bottle either way.

There is one more cask maturing but it won't taste exactly the same. I'm not a collector so I won't offer any advice on that side of things.

I have tried the whiskey though and it's truly gorgeous. I wouldn't be capable of buying this one and not drinking it

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

I'm just reading about the new Tyrconnell, with it being a single cask, and the first from a red wine cask from Colley, would I be right in thinking it is collectible, or should I wait and see if more is released? I'm thinking I'll pick up a bottle either way.

As far as I'm aware Ally of the Celtic Whiskey Shop sourced his own casks for these and Cooley filled them for him. These are quite unique and unusual casks and I have a feeling that they are from Ally's favourite wine but I am not 100% sure on that. In relation to single casks in general, as David said each and every single cask is different so if one or 10 casks are released they are still collectable. The first release is usually the most desireable which was a regular Tyrconnell Cask 3169 bottled in 2005. Then you have unusual casks like Allys and highly rated single casks like the 17yo which bump up each cask in the collectablity / desireablity stakes. But as I have mentioned before it is not a gaurntee to increase in value.

This single cask is something that possibly you should talk to Ally about and find out what is he doing? I'm sure he'd be delighted to talk about his Casks especially if your buying one and it is a great way to learn about the history of the WHiskey which will help build your knowledge.


P.S. I mentioned in the Bargain Alert thread that Easons have The Whiskeys of Ireland by Peter Mulryan at an excellent price of €6.99. Well worth a purchase.

[IainB]

As an aside the wine that these casks previously held is pretty good too - probably my favourite red at the moment - though I'm not much of a wine drinker.

On the whiskey itself I think what might make this bottling of particular interest is the fact that that it is from a wine cask. Apart from fortified wine - sherry port madeira etc. - can anyone remember an Irish whisket ever being bottled in a wine cask? I certainly can't which may well make this a first - if so then this bottling should at least hold some curiousity value, even if the experiment is repeated. Not necessarily any great monetary value but collectable in some sense anyway.

[JohnM]

This experiment will be repeated, kind of, because the cask it came from will be filled again. Same with the other one that's still maturing. I think this is right, anyway.

[IainB]

This experiment will be repeated, kind of, because the cask it came from will be filled again. Same with the other one that's still maturing. I think this is right, anyway.

Interesting - do you know of any previous wine cask finishes for Irish whiskey?

[JohnM]

I've never heard of one. I'd be surprised if the likes of IDL have not tried it, but might not have released any. But I don't know. Bushmills have experimented with rum, so maybe they would have tried something like wine too? Or an independent bottler could finish some else's whisky in wine if they wanted, but I can't recall ever coming across an Irish that has been.

Another aside... Most of the characteristic flavour that you get from a sherry/port cask comes from the type of wood, rather than what's been stored in it before. European oak gives sherry it's sherry flavour to some degree and gives the same sherry flavour to a whiskey. American oak, even when it has stored sherry previously, won't give the same flavour.

[IainB]

I've never heard of one. I'd be surprised if the likes of IDL have not tried it, but might not have released any. But I don't know. Bushmills have experimented with rum, so maybe they would have tried something like wine too? Or an independent bottler could finish some else's whisky in wine if they wanted, but I can't recall ever coming across an Irish that has been.

Another aside... Most of the characteristic flavour that you get from a sherry/port cask comes from the type of wood, rather than what's been stored in it before. European oak gives sherry it's sherry flavour to some degree and gives the same sherry flavour to a whiskey. American oak, even when it has stored sherry previously, won't give the same flavour.

You're right of course but there must be some impact from the type of wine - Madiera, sherry and port finishes are all different - see the Tyrconnell 10yo ranges. I suppose though from the point of view of a collector it is a first.

Of course collectibility can mean different things to different people - is it for monetary appreciation, aesthetic appreciation of for comparative tasing some point in the future. IWC's comment about refilling these casks come to mind - it would be interesting to hold onto a bottle of this and compare it to the whiskey from the second time round. Obvously it'll be a different distillate and all but it still might be a useful lesson in how casks change as they are reused. Single cask whiskeys of various types are available but it's very rare you'd be able buy two whiskeys that were matured in the same cask at different times. Now that might also be something worth keeping.

[kurtbenoit]

Single cask whiskeys of various types are available but it's very rare you'd be able buy two whiskeys that were matured in the same cask at different times. Now that might also be something worth keeping.

Excellent Idea!!

[kurtbenoit]

that's it, I'm sick off dipping my toe in the water, tomorrow, I'm getting The 1984 Midleton Very Rare!!!!!!

[JohnM]

Single cask whiskeys of various types are available but it's very rare you'd be able buy two whiskeys that were matured in the same cask at different times. Now that might also be something worth keeping.

Excellent Idea!!

I'm not 100% sure what they'll be doing with the refilled cask. The ownership of the cask may go to Cooley after the first fill, but I don't know. Who knows what plans they have for it.