Substitute for "dram"

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

By virture of use I would have to say that Dram is a scotts word. After all, virtually all words and terms are derived from something else.

[Willie JJ]

Ian Millar recently said on his Glenfiddich blog that traditionally a dram consisted of three 'scruples'. i like that idea too. It'd be nice to tell the Mrs that I'm going to the pub to increase my scruples.

I checked out 'dram' there in my Oxford English Dictionary apparently it is a Middle English variant of 'drachm' or an apothecaries measure. Which is from the Greek word 'drachma'.

So dram isn't a Scots word at all.

Anyone for 'braon'?? Irish for a drop.

Micheál I looked up braon in Webster's online dictionary and right enough it says its Irish for drop. It also says its Scots for a drop, dewdrop, distil, drizzle, drop. Personally I had never heard it until you brought it up though.


PS its also Serbian for brown, but I'm not sure that's relevant.

[Garry Carroll]

It'd be nice to tell the Mrs that I'm going to the pub to increase my scruples.

Surely one would be going to the pub because one had no scruples? That'd probably be believeable!

I do believe I've heard both "smothán" and "taoscán" used in the Irish context of "dram". How about one or both of these?

Cheers,
Garry

[Garry Carroll]

Anyone for 'braon'?? Irish for a drop.

Sorry, not only going to the pub due to lack of scruples - might also be considered "braon-less". I think I'll pass on both of these!

Garry

[varizoltan]

i meet an old guy, and we ended up talking about whiskey

he asked me what is my favourite tipple?

i asked back for a crack, what is tipple means?

he said; "it is an old irish say for your whiskey or short drink"

after i told him about this discussion, and he was surprised

[JohnM]

I'd understand a tipple to be any alcohol drink, rather than just whiskey. Pretty widely used. A touple is a couple of tipples*





*I made that last bit up.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

I don't even think it's Irish as I think the English have used this also and probably is in existance a long long time.

[Mothrae]

What a fun thread!

In the US, it's simple. Any spirits are measured by the "shot". There are two "shots", the smaller one is 1 fluid ounce (sometimes referred to as a "jigger"), the larger one is 1-1/2 ounces, always referred to as a shot. (Such as that Indian silver double measure mentioned early on).

In the US, a 1-1/2 ounce "shot" is equal in alcohol to a "glass of wine", and to 16 ounces of beer.

Here in the US, most times spirits are ordered as "Irish whiskey on the rocks", or "Neat", which is served in an "Old Fashioned" glass. We don't order by the "dram" or any other term, must be a cultural shift.

Do you folks on your side of the Atlantic "release the angels" (sprinkle a few drops of water over the drink) before drinking? I do that here and people look at me as if I had three heads.

Gimme a shot of whiskey! (John Wayne style)

[mawhinney]

The distinction has to be made, when talking about whiskey in amounts smaller than a cask,between those terms describing measures of the spirit in legal and transactional situations (e.g.buying a whiskey in a bar) and the terms used in conversation in social and sociable situations (e.g. "Will you have a dram or a drop of whiskey?) Nothing relating to the size of the amount(measure) is implied in the latter,even when the prefix"wee" is used. "Wee" here does not suggest size, but is rather a expression of endearment or affection - towards the whiskey, not the would-be recipient I hasten to add! Phew! Just had to clarify that, otherwise I might never be able to offer/buy someone a drink- or vice versa.
So, when we go up to the bar we say to the barman "A Black Bush please!", on certain occasions adding "Make it a large one" or "Make it a double." That's all that needs to be said - nothing more. Back at the table, having had a sip, we say "That's a nice drop of whiskey."
For me "drop" is the appropriate conversational term in Ireland, understood by one and all. "Dram" is too redolent of Scotland,though most certainly if I were in that country I would say "Yes, I'd love a dram " if it were proferred by a native. However,such occurrences are quite rare I have been told.
Slainte.

[PureDrop]

For me, I can never bring myself to say the word "dram". It sticks in my throat.

For comparison, using the term "dram" in relation to whiskey in Ireland is akin to referring to "violins" at a trad session (rather than "fiddles"). Same damn thing, but we're culturally atuned to referring to a fiddle, not a violin. Similarly, a "drop" of whiskey rolls off the tongue.

/M

[jcskinner]

I'm sticking with 'half-un' until there's a law telling me otherwise.
I think the idea of a protest term (against the reduction of the standard measure) has lasted generations, and I won't be responsible for letting that lapse!

[cathach]

You know jc that in the Gaeltacht one orders 'gloine X le do thoil', and if the barman puts out a half s/he's told 'caith amach gloine ni dhuirt me leath-ghloine'.

To translate: as Gaeilge [in Irish] people ask for 'a glass of X please', if the barman puts out a half s/he's told 'give me a glass I didn't ask for a half-glass'

If you're a fan of Myles na gCopaleen/Flann O'Brien in ''The Various Lives of Keats and Chapman and The Brother'' there's a tiff between Keats and Chapman over the right price to pay for a ten-glass bottle versus a ten-gloss manuscript. [A gloss being a linguistic or other note added to the margins of a manuscript]

A terrible pun I know.

[Mothrae]

Ordering a "gloine X le do thoil" in an American "Irish" pub will get you blank stares. The understanding of any Gaeilge in such places doesn't seem to be the case. Shame. I'm certainly not an expert in the language, but I can get by.

If you visit an Italian bar here, about half of the patrons speak Italian. A bar catering to Spanish-speaking folks, you will hear no English at all. But in an Irish bar here, no Irish.

An outrage, I tell ya!

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

For me "drop" is the appropriate conversational term in Ireland, understood by one and all. "Dram" is too redolent of Scotland,though most certainly if I were in that country I would say "Yes, I'd love a dram " if it were proferred by a native. However,such occurrences are quite rare I have been told.
Slainte.

I must admit if I'm on line and it is usually a scotch dominated website I'll say Dram but I think "Drop" is the man

My grand father used to say "a drop of the cratur" which I still love but probably get you some funny looks these days.

A drop of whiskey is so vague that it is perfect. Asking for a drop you are not stating how much you are asking for much and it does not sound greedy but how much is a drop??? the person giving dosent know and not wanting to look mean will usually give a handsome pour

[brettie vedder]

Ordering a "gloine X le do thoil" in an American "Irish" pub will get you blank stares. The understanding of any Gaeilge in such places doesn't seem to be the case. Shame. I'm certainly not an expert in the language, but I can get by.

If you visit an Italian bar here, about half of the patrons speak Italian. A bar catering to Spanish-speaking folks, you will hear no English at all. But in an Irish bar here, no Irish.

An outrage, I tell ya!

ordering "gloine X le do thoil" in most pubs in ireland will get you blank stares as well. unless you are in an irish speaking area like connemara, aran islands etc... only about 10% of ireland actually speaks irish. english is the primary language here, just like it is in america. according to my wife, irish is taught in schools but the majority of irish people are not fluent.

if you are dealing with italian or spanish people from their respective country, you will definitely hear them speak their native tongue, since that is their first language. kind of comparing apples to oranges

[cathach]

This is true of course, but there is a huge passive understanding of the language. However the point I was making is that a lot of people still remember the heinous trick of the government halving the measure and keeping the same price.

Vive la resistance!

[jcskinner]

Absolutely! A half-measure it will always be, unless they double it back up again.