Jameson Rarest Vintage Reserve

[rummy]

Firstly, hello from out West. Glad to find a worthwhile forum on the internet, in this day in age.

Secondly, I've been searching for any specs on Jameson's Rarest Reserve, which my bar just got in, and of which I'm the only drinker... so far. It was absolutley amazing, and I think it proper I have some details of its life before I submit it to the Vatican for Cannonization.

Thanks for your time folks.

[jcskinner]

Personally, I think it's appallingly overrated and overpriced.
I actually prefer other much cheaper variants in the Jameson range.
It has its fans, though, and clearly you're one of them, as are some others in here.
As for what's in it? Well, wouldn't we all love to know, but IDL are very cagey about admitting just how young and just how much grain whiskey goes into their top-end blends.
Oh, and welcome along, Rummy. I take from your chosen name that whiskey isn't the only brown spirit you're fond of?

[Luke Gough]

I agree JC, IMO Jameson Gold is the best value in the range methinks...

[JohnM]

Firstly, hello from out West. Glad to find a worthwhile forum on the internet, in this day in age.

Secondly, I've been searching for any specs on Jameson's Rarest Reserve, which my bar just got in, and of which I'm the only drinker... so far. It was absolutley amazing, and I think it proper I have some details of its life before I submit it to the Vatican for Cannonization.

Thanks for your time folks.

Welcome Rummy

I think this is a great, great whiskey, although it's over-priced - there are certainly better value Jamesons out there. Some of the JRVR is aged in port pipes and it contains some whiskey over 20 years old, but we don't know if this is the grain constituent or the pot still. It's non-chillfiltered and bottled at 46%.

I think there's two versions of it, a 2008 version and a 2009 version, or maybe it's 07 and 08. Anyway, there's not supposed to be a huge difference between the two, the later one being just that little bit older in general.

I don't think it's massively better than the Jameson 18, and it's a lot more expensive. But I still think it's a brilliant whiskey. As Luke said, the Jameson Gold is also great and better value.

I'm talking about Irish prices. I know it's only $250 over where you are, so it makes it much more attractive.

[TheWhiskeyBro]

Here is one description I found...

Jameson Rarest Vintage Reserve Irish Whiskey Very Rare 750ml

Rarest Vintage Reserve is a blend, like the other Jameson whiskeys, consisting of older grain whiskeys in addition to pure pot still whiskey (containing both malted and unmalted barley), some of which was aged entirely in ruby port casks (with the rest matured in second fill bourbon casks).The grain whiskey is 23-24 years old, with the pot still component being slightly younger. The whiskey is bottled at 46% and is not chill-filtered!

There is no doubt, given the expertise of The Four Masters, that this is a very fine whiskey indeed.


To create Jameson Rarest Vintage Reserve, they blended aged grain whiskeys with rare, traditional pot still whiskeys of specific character, artfully combined with vintage distillations aged in specially-commissioned port pipes. Triple-distilled and bottled without the use of chill filtration, the exclusive blend and its unique aging process has yielded historic Irish whiskey of superb depth and complexity, with intriguing flavor notes.

[TheWhiskeyBro]

The Jameson Whiskey store has this description...

Jameson Rarest Vintage Reserve is the ultimate expression of Jameson distilling expertise. For this first vintage, fortified port pipe casks were used for maturing one of the pot still whiskeys imparting a glorious fruit rich character to the whiskey. The combination of the oldest and rarest parcels of whiskey by the Jameson whiskey Masters of Distillation, Blending and Maturation result in a whiskey with depth, complexity and a supremely lavish taste.

Encased in a luxurious, highly finished presentation box, once stocks of this ultra-premium whiskey are sold out they cannot be repeated.

[TheWhiskeyBro]

And finally a good article here for you to read which highlights some of the differences and similarities of the JJS18 and the JRVR.

http://www.beveragebusiness.com/archive ... 45&aid=420

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

I'd have to dissagree on the over priced and over rated comments ...

It maybe over priced in regards to Irish prices but from the US point of view it to me seems like relatively good value as a super premium whiskey.

And over rated I think not ... it is a brilliant whiskey and has had amazing re-action from a lot of the top independent tasters. To have so many swoon over it means that IDL have got it right.

Where the major issues lie is with IDL's pricing strategy for it's home market in Ireland however this is certianly not applicaple in the US.

Next is the make up of the whiskey and whether it should command a super premium price tag or not.

I say why not ... it is not a mass marketed whiskey and actually quite limited and what people need to realise is that this whiskey is seen as the pinicale of Jameson and therefore it is being priced as such and not being priced for it's constituents. However the constituents of this are what IDL consider the best they have available. Therefore age is irrelevant in this case to my mind. But the constituents are some of the oldest and most special whiskeys IDL have. What also needs to be remembered is that Scotch has a much older maturing age than Irish Whiskey. Irish whiskey has always been considered at it's optimum at between 15-20 years old. Scotch on the other hand can take 20-30 years to reach it's optimum. SO why go for older if it is not going to be any better.

Further all companies do similar bottlings like Johnny Walk Blue of which nobody knows what is in it and they also have vague statements like "some of our oldest whikies" & "some over 40years old" but whta is the rest ... does it really matter as it is also an amazing whiskey. Whether it is worth it or not is a personal choice but for a flagship whiskey I think IDL or any company for that matter are entitled to price these as a super premium blends. It's a range sinario ... Take your decision to buy a car do you slagg off Aston MArtin because their car is over priced? You have Jameson nas (a Hyundai Sonata) Jameson 12yo (VW PAssat) Jameson Gold (Audi A4) and Jameson Rarest (Aston Martin DB9) Is the Aston martin really worth 5 times the Audi or close to the cost of a semi-D house in towns across Ireland.

Where the issue comes in for me is where they have a product like Jameson Gold which is also a great whiskey but that is frightfully over priced too for what it is. A mass marketed blended whiskey (Possibly only 8-10yo). And Jameson 18yo which is close to double what some top 18yo scotch competitors. I can get Glenfiddich 18yo for 75Euro in Ireland yet Jameson 18yo is 125Euro

Therefore until IDL get their pricing right in Ireland they will continue to recieve negative comments like JC's and mine which undermines their entire product range. A range which is actually superb in taste but has a lot to be desired in the price.

[DavidH]

Irish whiskey has always been considered at it's optimum at between 15-20 years old. Scotch on the other hand can take 20-30 years to reach it's optimum.

Interesting. Does this refer to peated Scotch? In my limited tasting experience, I've noticed it takes over 20 years for the peat to fully integrate into the taste so it doesn't stand out so obviously on its own as a note. The result is very good too, IMHO.

As for the RVR, we might get some further insight at the Barry Crockett tasting later this month. And hopefully a nip of it too.

[jcskinner]

There's a good number of points raised by IWC there.
In response, I'm going to say I stick to my guns on this - the RVR is both overpriced (in all markets, but especially the home one) and overrated in my opinion.
I'm not sure the car analogy is an especially useful one, since we could bandy back and forth on what whiskey is like what car. That could make a fun thread actually, but perhaps a bit off-topic here.
IDL execs have said to me that they consider Irish whiskey as 'peaking' at or around 16 to 18 years old. Whether one agrees with that or not (and I don't entirely) that certainly seems to be the perceived opinion within the company.
So, if they feel their top whiskeys are falling in or around this age bracket, they'll price accordingly, of course.
But the Bush 21 yo, Millennium 25 yos, and various limited run whiskeys (usually from now sadly closed distilleries) tell the tale that Irish whiskey can go beyond that bracket and keep getting better.
Perhaps that doesn't apply to Midleton's output, though. However, the bottom line remains that it simply doesn't cost as much to produce a bottle of an 18 or 20 yo blended whiskey as it does a 30 yo single malt.
Therefore, I reject IDL's pricing of their 'pinnacle' whiskeys alongside products that clearly cost a lot more to produce.
To return to the quality issue - we're all going to have our own opinions on this, but I just didn't think it was all that.
I'd love to see it slipped into a few blind tastings and we might find that it isn't quite so highly renowned once the tasters cannot be influenced by knowing what they're tasting.
It can take a brave man to point out the Emperor's new clothes. I'm not suggesting I'm that man or the RVR is the Emperor's new clothes. But I would insist that I don't think it's Midleton's top product, or even the best whiskey in the Jameson range. Of course, others are free to disagree!

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

... the bottom line remains that it simply doesn't cost as much to produce a bottle of an 18 or 20 yo blended whiskey as it does a 30 yo single malt.
Therefore, I reject IDL's pricing of their 'pinnacle' whiskeys alongside products that clearly cost a lot more to produce.
To return to the quality issue - we're all going to have our own opinions on this, but I just didn't think it was all that.
I'd love to see it slipped into a few blind tastings and we might find that it isn't quite so highly renowned once the tasters cannot be influenced by knowing what they're tasting.
It can take a brave man to point out the Emperor's new clothes. I'm not suggesting I'm that man or the RVR is the Emperor's new clothes. But I would insist that I don't think it's Midleton's top product, or even the best whiskey in the Jameson range. Of course, others are free to disagree!

I totally agree JC on the cost ratio of IDL's older whiskey ... whether or not they have limited stocks still does not justify the ludicrous pricing of the 18yo ... it just does not add up especially when IDL have one of the most efficient and highest out puts of whiskey in the world.

But what the RVR represents for me is the top flagship Jameson on the market. In saying that I still would rank the Radbreast 15yo above it but the RVR for me by far the best Jameson. Before I ever tasted a RVR and Knappogue 1951 and some one came to me and said you have a choice of either of these I would have gone for the Knappogue due to my preconcieved expectation that a 36yo pure pot still would be better than a luxury PPS blend. However I would of been wrong as taste wise the RVR beats the Knappogue easily for me that is.

However the premise of a flagship product is not neccessairly supposed to offer value, a show case if you will and as such price is irrelevant, all whiskey companies do it so I don't see an issue with it and to that end I can live with that. What I can't live with is the Irish whiskey being priced out of it's own market by IDl themselves while scotch can quite easily under cut the price of Irish whiskey which is shameful.

[jcskinner]

I'd agree with all of that, IWC.
I'm aware of the flagship nature of RVR for Jameson. However, for me, the 18 yo is a better dram (maybe I'm agreeing with the IDL staff who reckon that's when their whiskey peaks), and the Gold, as Luke said is the best pound-for-pound whiskey in the range.
I'd agree that the Redbreast 15 yo is the best I've ever had from Midleton, though I haven't exhausted their range. But that, I feel is their fault rather than mine. Just how much are those vintage Midletons from the 70s again?
I'm not suggesting the RVR isn't a great whiskey. I found a few flaws for my palate - a bit grainy, a bit cloying - that didn't seem present in the 18 yo. But not everyone has the same experience and as you say, a lot of people have expressed a big interest in this whiskey.
But I couldn't agree more with your statement that IDL are alienating their native market with this sort of pricing strategy. And I'd go further in saying that they in part alienate ALL their markets by not being more open about what they're putting in their bottles.
We shouldn't have to rely on Whiskeybros' detective work to dig out the ingredients in these drams. IDL should be proudly stating up front: here's what's in our whiskeys, and you're going to love it.

[rummy]

Thanks a ton for all the feed back guys. The articles Ive read (including TheWhiskeyBro's, thanks for that) all indicate a blend of 30year olds to brand new. I was hoping that you all on the Island had some secret pamphlets or something on more specs. I should have remembered the price/availability discrepency from the Scotland and Ireland to the US. It's a shame. I have Scots come into my bar and say, "Your pouring Oban 15 Distiller Reserve for $18? I've never seen it in a bar!" So your similar comments on the RVR aren't suprising. Disheartening, but not suprising. I understand the marketing and economic issues, but, as Kermit Lynch said, "Money doesn't buy good taste." I think RVR is wasted by and large in urban bars across the States.

Case in point: a bar in downtown Seattle makes a Rob Roy... for $40... with Balvenie 30. Their website says "handcrafted to be enjoyed responsibly". I hate some bars.

In any case, I quite enjoyed my glass, and will be purchasing a bottle as soon as i can justify it. When it comes to economy, theirs always a bottle of Jameson Irish Whiskey and a bottle of Gosling's Black Seal Rum near to hand (so, yes, jcskinner, quite right you are). When it comes to luxury, celebration, and commemorration, i'll spend the extra coin. Jameson Irish Whiskey: $26.95. RVR: $275.95. RVR 10x better? Disputable. Worth every penny. Absolutely.

[IainB]

I'm late to this one I know but I suppose the question of whether something is over rated or not is purely down to your own perspective on the product.

If a lot of people like a product and it gets good reviews but it's not really your thing then you will think it's overrated.

If you like something no one else does then you'll think it's under rated. That's really it, so having a discussion about whether something is overrated or not is really just a discussion about whether you like it or not.

For the record, I think JRVR is one of the best things ever to come out of Midleton - my current 2 favourites from there are this and the Redbreast 15. That said, if the other Jameson Reserves aren't your thing then it's less likely you'll love this. I say less likely because of course there are exceptions to everything.

Whether it's over priced or not, particularly in Ireland, if another matter in Ireland. I feel it is quite overpriced, especially compared to elsewhere, but that does not affect the quality of what's in the bottle.

[JohnM]

I'm late to this one I know but I suppose the question of whether something is over rated or not is purely down to your own perspective on the product.

If a lot of people like a product and it gets good reviews but it's not really your thing then you will think it's overrated.

If you like something no one else does then you'll think it's under rated. That's really it, so having a discussion about whether something is overrated or not is really just a discussion about whether you like it or not.

For the record, I think JRVR is one of the best things ever to come out of Midleton - my current 2 favourites from there are this and the Redbreast 15. That said, if the other Jameson Reserves aren't your thing then it's less likely you'll love this. I say less likely because of course there are exceptions to everything.

Whether it's over priced or not, particularly in Ireland, if another matter in Ireland. I feel it is quite overpriced, especially compared to elsewhere, but that does not affect the quality of what's in the bottle.

These are pretty much my feelings on it too, but I overrate my feelings.

I finished off the last of my RVR last night. I was wonderful, although I don't doubt I'm seduced by the marketing etc. I'd have a bottle of this open all the time if it was 150 euro.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

These are pretty much my feelings on it too, but I overrate my feelings.

I finished off the last of my RVR last night. I was wonderful, although I don't doubt I'm seduced by the marketing etc. I'd have a bottle of this open all the time if it was 150 euro.

Yes John we all know your wonderful

[IainB]

These are pretty much my feelings on it too, but I overrate my feelings.

I finished off the last of my RVR last night. I was wonderful, although I don't doubt I'm seduced by the marketing etc. I'd have a bottle of this open all the time if it was 150 euro.

Yes John we all know your wonderful

Well Spotted IWC. I for one would like to add my voice to the consensus regarding JohnM's wonderfulness.

[JohnM]

I am wonderful, but there's a team of people behind me who allow it to happen.

You should have seen me drinking that RVR, though... I really was wonderful.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

I am wonderful, but there's a team of people behind me who allow it to happen.

You should have seen me drinking that RVR, though... I really was wonderful.

It's good to know that it is not all just natural wonderfulness and it takes a team to make you wonderful ... makes us mere mortals feel that maybe we could reach those heights if we too had the help of a full team behind us.

[IainB]

I am wonderful, but there's a team of people behind me who allow it to happen.

You should have seen me drinking that RVR, though... I really was wonderful.

It's good to know that it is not all just natural wonderfulness and it takes a team to make you wonderful ... makes us mere mortals feel that maybe we could reach those heights if we too had the help of a full team behind us.

Speak for yourself. I never said I wasn't wonderful too. And I don't even have a team!