Dunville's

[IainB]

What do you make of this.......

http://www.whisky-online.com/dunville-s ... hisky.html

It says Dunville's, it has 3 crowns on it, it's in the Irish whiskey section but if you look close up it says "Produce of Scotland".

Anyone got any idea how this might come about??

[jcskinner]

The Royal Irish Distillery was owned by Dunville's and the Three Crowns, along with the VR, was probably their best known whiskey, and it was distilled in Belfast.
But this bottle, despite bearing Three Crowns, is not called Three Crowns. Barnard reported that Dunvilles had "offices in London, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle-on-Tyne, Glasgow, and Dublin, with representatives throughout the United Kingdom, and agents all over the world."
Is it unreasonable to think that perhaps they also bottled some Scotch and sold it?
However, my own suspicion is that this is a knock-off, some low-end Scotch trading off the good name of Dunville's after it went to the wall.
That would still make it pretty old and of value (though not the value being asked for there.)
I haven't bothered to research this, I should hasten to add, since I'm on my way out to tonight's tasting. But I promise I will look into it, since Dunville's has a special resonance for me and I love finding out more about what they did.

[IainB]

Interesting alright, thanks for that. I'm certainly not thinking of buying it but came across it quite by accident. It does seem odd that you could do that - Imagine a Powers scotch blended whisky??????????????

[jcskinner]

There's no doubt Dunville's traded and blended.
There's an extant postcard from Dunville's to the Comber Distillery in the early 1900s asking to 'repeat their order', which would have been for Old Comber potstill whiskey, one presumes.
I imagine that was going into a blend of theirs, possibly even Three Crowns.
Incidentally, an interesting comparison is with this bottle:
http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-2857.aspx
Note that the typeface of 'Dunville's' is different, though the crowns and labelling is highly similar.
Also Three Crowns was 'Liqueur' or 'Special Liqueur' whisk[e]y, but not 'De Luxe Old Malt'.
Either it's a genuine Dunville's Scotch, though I've no evidence of them trading in Scotch especially not under their own brand, or else it's some sort of knock-off.

[JohnM]

Dunville's used to own or had a connection with Bladnoch. There's a lot of Dunvilles stuff there and I think they may have produced it.

Raymond collects Dunville's stuff.

[IainB]

There's no doubt Dunville's traded and blended.
There's an extant postcard from Dunville's to the Comber Distillery in the early 1900s asking to 'repeat their order', which would have been for Old Comber potstill whiskey, one presumes.
I imagine that was going into a blend of theirs, possibly even Three Crowns.
Incidentally, an interesting comparison is with this bottle:
http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-2857.aspx
Note that the typeface of 'Dunville's' is different, though the crowns and labelling is highly similar.
Also Three Crowns was 'Liqueur' or 'Special Liqueur' whisk[e]y, but not 'De Luxe Old Malt'.
Either it's a genuine Dunville's Scotch, though I've no evidence of them trading in Scotch especially not under their own brand, or else it's some sort of knock-off.

Now this I do have a bottle of. I'd love to open it someday. Maybe for my 60th when it's about 100 years old!

I was really just looking for something similar when I came across the De Luxe Old Malt. I thought the price seemed low for a retailer so I zoomed in and spotted the produce of scotland. It's a bit disingenuous to have the Scottish one included in the Irish whiskey section.

[IainB]

Just looking again it doesn't actually say single malt anywhere on the bottle. Nor does it say either Irish or Scotch whisky. Just whisky. Could it be a vatted malt of some kind? Possibly even an Irish / Scotch one?

The same website has a Dunville's VR which does say Irish whisky.

[Michael Foggarty]

The whisky-online Dunvilles is as recent as the late 70's probably mid to late 90's at a guess, its to clean. to smart and has alovely newish screw cap.

The whisyexhchange bottle is in good condition but clearly older, i think Ally has a very old Dunvilles in the shop at present probably circa 1900-09

[IainB]

Yeah I'd noticed the screw cap but forgot to mention it. All a bit dodgy anyway - god knows where the whiskey in the bottle came from!

[JohnM]

I'd say Bladnoch.

The fluid oz gives it a minimum age, but I think that might be only around the end of the 1970s (in the US and earlier in the U.K., I think). And there has been screwcaps on whisky since the 1940s, I think. Although you'd expect something with a screwcap to have evaporated quite a bit, but maybe not.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

You could be right Michael but going by the 70 proof statement it is probably pre mid 80's.

In saying that there was a modern one out ... Click here which was made by Cooley.

See Bladnoch History for some more light reading on Dunvilles Click Here

[JohnM]

I'd say the mid 1980s is the very latest that bottle could have been produced. There were a few years of crossover when bottles displayed fl oz or cl, but that would still put it at the latest in the early 1980s. I am open to correction, of course. I'd be amazed if it was from the 1990s.

[JohnM]

It also says Glasgow on the bottle. I know this means nothing, really, but the closest distillery to Glasgow is Auchentoshan.

Could have been made anywhere, really.

[IainB]

I'm really starting to think this one is a vatted malt of some sort - If it was a single you'd think they'd say so. I'd even guess that the whisky may not all be scottish - It doesn't say Scotch whisky anywhere - it just say produce of scotland - what does that mean - vatted in scotland, bottled in scotland. Anyone know the rules on this?

Anyway I don't think we'll be buying it - I hope no one else does thinking it's an old Irish whiskey.

Maybe I'll e-mail the retailer for some details.

[JohnM]

I've come across a few Scottish Dunville's. I bought one too a few years ago, but it was smashed in the post. It was a different bottle to this one, though.

[IainB]

Well I've sent an e-mail - we'll see if there's a response.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Iain, it could well be a vatted malt as you say or just as easily a single malt but it really is impossible to tell as the term single Malt is very much something that has only been in use as a specific category for the last 30years. A bit like the way Liqueur Whiskey was used instead of Pure Pot Still or even single malt also.

ANd if it is a single malt I'd reckon it would be impossible to identify the distillery unless we know that the dates match the ownership of Bladnoch but that is unlightly as John has pointed out the Glasgow association.

Still an interesting puzzle.

[Michael Foggarty]

a typo in 1990 it should have read 1980s

[Michael Foggarty]

Im no expert on glass bottles but if you "look through" the bottle you can see the indentation to keep it a certain place on a bottlling line, when was this intorduced to bottles ?

On top of that its still possible to buy old whisey labels on ebay.