Dingle Distillery Plans

[JohnM]

Here are the plans for the Porterhouse Dingle distillery - http://www.southboundproperties.com/ima ... ations.pdf

I believe you can be a founding father for €100,000...

Some news (oldish) - http://www.whisky-pages.com/stories/news-03-2009.htm

[DavidH]

Those plans were drawn up very early and no longer apply. I was promised an updated version last year but never got them. I don't know how much has changed.

[JohnM]

I'd love to see them when they're available.

[Michael Foggarty]

Im not sure if the following was everer followed but its an intresting thought.

At the Japanese tasting i had a chat with Oliver, we were talking about the wash/wash backs, in theory the more acidic/sour the wash is the better the whiskey, Belgian Lambic beers are sour and are produce in breweries with louvre doors to allow as much wild yeast into them as possible.

So maybe we will see a few louvre doors in the building.

[JohnM]

There's only a small area of Belgium that can make Lambics, because it's only there that the conctntration of natural yeasts in the air is high enough, so Kerry may or may not be suitable for that sort of thing. And Lambics take a long long time to ferment...

[Fionnán]

I had been hearing a lot last year that the Porterhouse lot intended the new distillery to produce traditional PPS whiskey rather than Single Malts but i just read a business prospectus in which they talked about their intended products as single malts.

http://www.thedinglewhiskeydistillery.i ... ochure.pdf

Have they changed their minds about the direction of the distillery? Do they intend to produce both styles? Any help or clarification would be tremendously appreciated; thanks

[varizoltan]

I had been hearing a lot last year that the Porterhouse lot intended the new distillery to produce traditional PPS whiskey rather than Single Malts but i just read a business prospectus in which they talked about their intended products as single malts.

http://www.thedinglewhiskeydistillery.i ... ochure.pdf

Have they changed their minds about the direction of the distillery? Do they intend to produce both styles? Any help or clarification would be tremendously appreciated; thanks

a fantastic plan, i wish i had money to invest in it..

i hope they can start soon

[JohnM]

Yeah, but where's the mention of pure pot still?

[Fionnán]

that's exactly what i was wondering; all the news that i'd heard prior to this had been fairly explicit about the pps rather than single malt intentions but this pamphlet seems to only mention malts.

http://www.irishwhiskeynotes.com/2008/1 ... llery.html

http://www.whisky-pages.com/stories/news-03-2009.htm

[PureDrop]

Read the prospectus again ...
"Whale Tail: Single Malt 4-year cask aged whiskey
The wash is made of a grist of Kerry barley and Irish malted barley, fermented with proprietary Irish brewing
yeast in washbacks, and spirit is triple-distilled and collected into ex-bourbon casks for four years ageing."
The title says "Single Malt", the description is PPS.
Some of the others say malt only.
/M

[Fionnán]

Oh, thank you Michael, i can't believe i missed that; god, i hope the Dingle labeling doesnt become a reverse counterpart to Cooley's habit of writing pps on malts...

[JohnM]

Yes, why aren't they calling this pure pot still Irish whiskey? Seems a bit strange to me.

[DavidH]

Thank you for bringing that document to our attention.

The Porterhouse guys were very clear about their commitment to PPS but, in hindsight, I realise they said nothing one way or the other about single malt.

The prospectus is clear that there will be single malt output, less clear that there will be PPS. The errors suggest it wasn't compiled by someone familiar with whiskey production. Besides the contradiction pointed out by Michael, I notice another erroneous statement:

A solera that is eight levels deep (if 25 percent is taken out of the oldest row for bottling each year) will produce whiskey that are an average age of 8 years old after 10 years.

A solera that is eight levels deep will produce whiskey that is guaranteed at least 8 years old after 8 years.

[JohnM]

That can happen. A press release about the new Tullamore Dew 10 single malt said it was great because it was triple-distilled. Now it's great because it's double-distilled, I think.

Barry Walsh launching this in Germany shortly, by the way, but that's off topic.

[Fionnán]

has anyone heard any recent updates on the intended expressions from someone closer to the distilling process? McDougal? Hughes?

Reading the document again with the awkward wording in mind, i'm most struck by the possibility that they may be producing both styles. As i see it, they outline 7 products (including the two special editions), 2 of which are whiskey based liqueurs (Dingle Cream and Dingle Dew), and 5 of which are whiskeys. Of those five, "Whale Tail" is referred to as a "single malt" but its description is clearly that of a PPS ("The wash is made of a grist of Kerry barley and Irish malted barley"), the "Celebration" special edition is referred to as a single malt and its description fits that title ("The wash is made of a grist of 100% Irish malted barley") while the remaining three ("Dingle Green," "Dingle Gold," and the "Founding Fathers" special edition) don't describe the wash content at all. Elsewhere in the prospectus, "Dingle Gold" is casually referred to as "our benchmark single malt whiskey" but, based on its use in the rest of the prospectus, i'm not sure how much validity that title holds in this context.

Whatever the case, it looks like this project's been changing a lot since i last heard about it. I read the following article about a year ago:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... n30949023/

In this article Hughes says that he intends to distill gin while the whiskey is maturing but the intended products mentioned in the prospectus make no mention of that (the closest would be the "Dingle Dew" liqueur which claims to be made from "Irish malt and barley spirit" spirit flavored with "Kerry botanicals" (added 'botanicals' in raw spirit smacks of gin...) and "some natural Irish honey sweetness" (closest thing i can think of would be Irish Mist or Scotch Drambuie.)
However, even this description is pretty oblique. As a whole, it reads: "Irish malt and barley spirit extracts aromas and flavours of Kerry botanicals and flowers in the distillation process itself. The resulting aperitif is a distinctive sipping amber herbal liqueur with some natural Irish honey sweetness. " From the differentiation between 'malt' and 'barley' in the phrase "Irish malt and barley spirit" it looks like the base of this drink is PPS spirit; after that, it describes it as having extracted 'Kerry botanicals and flowers in the distillation process itself" which would mean that, despite the use of the gin industry's favorite word, it's still an uncompounded spirit; However they immediately go on to describe it as an 'amber herbal liqueur' rather than a young whiskey and it's not even clear if the "natural Irish honey sweetness" means that they've actually compounded it with honey or, like the 'natural Kerry botanicals,' they believe that a honey-like flavour will be achieved through the process itself. (Correct me if i'm wrong but I always associated honey notes more with maturation than distillation, but that's not mentioned here.)

As i'm not much of a liqueur drinker anyway, i'm far more interested in the question of what the whiskeys outlined in the prospectus will entail and whether they intend to produce both PPS and malt whisky. Whatever the case, the project seems to have either developed quite a bit or the prospectus is simply out of sync with McDougal and Hughes' genuine plans for the product. As a demonstrative point, even the titles of the whiskeys are incongruous with the above interview, in which Hughes mentions that they want to give the whisky a 'marketable' name as Gaeilge (presumably something easy for an international market to pronounce) while the prospectus gives the standard whiskeys the rather bland names of "Dingle Green" and "Dingle Gold" (although i must say i'm fairly partial to a name like "Whale Tail...")

Anyone have any thoughts on the issue or clarification from a source close to the project?

[DavidH]

However, even this description is pretty oblique. As a whole, it reads: "Irish malt and barley spirit extracts aromas and flavours of Kerry botanicals and flowers in the distillation process itself. The resulting aperitif is a distinctive sipping amber herbal liqueur with some natural Irish honey sweetness. " From the differentiation between 'malt' and 'barley' in the phrase "Irish malt and barley spirit" it looks like the base of this drink is PPS spirit; after that, it describes it as having extracted 'Kerry botanicals and flowers in the distillation process itself" which would mean that, despite the use of the gin industry's favorite word, it's still an uncompounded spirit;

My guess is the botanicals are added at some point before the final distillation. Either they are in the liquid or the vapour from distillation is allowed to pass through them before condensing.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

It sounds like to me they are going for a wide range of tourist friendly products which is smart. And as singlr malt is more identifiable than PPS I can see why the may do a single malt also.

I would not worry too much about the logistic of doing PPS & malt as both can be done on the same system quite easily and interchangeably so there is no reason why they can't do both.

I think this is the right approach for a new company as it maximises their chances of success.

[Fionnán]

If that's the case, i'd be even more excited to see their results than before; aside from the obvious implication of more whiskeys to choose from, it would be interesting to compare a malt and a PPS born from the same still

[JohnM]

If that's the case, i'd be even more excited to see their results than before; aside from the obvious implication of more whiskeys to choose from, it would be interesting to compare a malt and a PPS born from the same still

Yeah, I always wonder why Bushmills or Cooley don't try it.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

If that's the case, i'd be even more excited to see their results than before; aside from the obvious implication of more whiskeys to choose from, it would be interesting to compare a malt and a PPS born from the same still

Yeah, I always wonder why Bushmills or Cooley don't try it.

In one way yes why not but I would reckon that it is more trouble some for a larger out fit to be chopping and changing. Boutique distillers are more adaptable.

I just hope my guess is right.

[JohnM]

Maybe. Everything is probably accounted for and planned in great detail, but why not just bang x bags of unmalted barley into the mash and distill it? Maybe the cut points and temperatures or whatever are different, but it shouldn't present too much of a problem. Maybe part of the Diageo/IDL deal is that Bushmills don't do it.

[Michael Foggarty]

If only it was easy as that, from what ive heard its quite difficult to make.

isnt there also some legal wrangle over the word "pure" i.e. your not meant to use it anymore??

[JohnM]

I think Raymond Armstrong may try to make it.

[Michael Foggarty]

If that's the case, i'd be even more excited to see their results than before; aside from the obvious implication of more whiskeys to choose from, it would be interesting to compare a malt and a PPS born from the same still

This has been done Erin Go Brath 6 year old sinlge malt from Midleton.

[Michael Foggarty]

I know its the Dingle Distillery but the name Dingle Whisky is quite boring!

Remember these are the marketing geniuses that brought us Wisser Buddy and Probably lager!!!

How about Absolutely Vodka, Jamesdaughter Whisky, Irish Fog Honey Liqueur, Bailed-out cream liqueur and Kerry Dry Gin ???