Def. question

[MyIrishHome]

If I make a mash of malted and un malted barley, ferment it and then distill and mature I will have an Pot Still whiskey.

What if I mash unmalted barley, ferment e.t.c. and do the same separately with malted barley. Mix the both new makes and then mature it. Will this also be called a Pot Still or will that be a blended?

Does someone know why someone would do it like that instead of keeping them separated in the cask and then blend them later on?

[IainB]

If it were possible it would be a blend. However, it may be impossible to ferment a mash made purely of unmalted barley - malted barley provides enzymes which are necessary for the distillation process, as far as I know. Even when grain whiskey is made from corn, wheat etc. there is a portion of malted barley in the mix for this reason.

[DavidH]

It's a good question, even if you have to mash 90%/10% unmalted/malted and blend it after maturation with 100% malted. I wonder how that would turn out, or if anyone has tried it in recent decades.

[IainB]

A lot would depend on how it was distilled - pot still or column still.

A 90:10 split distilled in a column still would be a grain whiskey I guess, in which case blending it with Malt whiskey would be, more or less a normal malty blend - so it would very much depend on the malt : grain ratio.

I've a feeling they normally use about 20% malted barley in a grain - but I could be very wrong.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Answer to first question is yes from a technical point of view as long as you use a pot still. No from a geographical point of view


The use of Malted Barley (in what ever ratio) with un-Malted barley or grain is recommended as it helps the fermentation due to the higher sugar levels in Malted barley. Yeast needs sugar to feed off to create the fermentation process. So a mash of Barley on it's own will not be as successful as a mash with at least some malt content but not impossible.

[DavidH]

A lot would depend on how it was distilled - pot still or column still.

I assumed we were just talking about pot stills but I see now the original question didn't rule out the column.

Leaving aside the column still, I'm wondering about IWC's mention of sugar. I thought the point of malted barley was the enzymes for converting starch to sugar. In the mashtun these operate on the unmalted and malted barley starches alike to get the sugary wort. Only then is it fermented so I'm not really seeing how higher malt matters to the yeast, which should not see any starch, just sugar.

[MyIrishHome]

In a Swedish whisky magazine it was said in an "article" that Irishman 70 is a triple distilled whisky (well, here we lost some creditability I guess ). It should contain 70% malted barley and 30% unmalted barley, both distilled separate in a pot still and there after been blended. It's a blended whiskey but it differs from other blends as it doesn't use grain whiskey.

I haven't read the article but had it refereed to by the Swedish distributor and it made me thinking of definitions.

An other questions, does Ireland have exclusive use of the term pot still whiskey/singel pot still whiskey? Or just to the term IRISH Pot still?

Thanks for the respond!

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

A lot would depend on how it was distilled - pot still or column still.

Leaving aside the column still, I'm wondering about IWC's mention of sugar. I thought the point of malted barley was the enzymes for converting starch to sugar. In the mashtun these operate on the unmalted and malted barley starches alike to get the sugary wort. Only then is it fermented so I'm not really seeing how higher malt matters to the yeast, which should not see any starch, just sugar.

Hi David, yes it maybe the starch aspect I am referring to ... Have really lost contact with my whiskey brain these past 2 years so if it's starch that maybe the reason but it is still malted barley that has the higher content and aids the fermentation process. As I said you can use just straight barley but it will benefit greatly for add malt.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

In a Swedish whisky magazine it was said in an "article" that Irishman 70 is a triple distilled whisky (well, here we lost some creditability I guess ). It should contain 70% malted barley and 30% unmalted barley, both distilled separate in a pot still and there after been blended. It's a blended whiskey but it differs from other blends as it doesn't use grain whiskey.

I haven't read the article but had it refereed to by the Swedish distributor and it made me thinking of definitions.

An other questions, does Ireland have exclusive use of the term pot still whiskey/singel pot still whiskey? Or just to the term IRISH Pot still?

Thanks for the respond!

There may be a slight mis translation there ...

It is made from 70% malt whiskey and 30% pot still whiskey

[varizoltan]

In a Swedish whisky magazine it was said in an "article" that Irishman 70 is a triple distilled whisky (well, here we lost some creditability I guess ). It should contain 70% malted barley and 30% unmalted barley, both distilled separate in a pot still and there after been blended. It's a blended whiskey but it differs from other blends as it doesn't use grain whiskey.

I haven't read the article but had it refereed to by the Swedish distributor and it made me thinking of definitions.

An other questions, does Ireland have exclusive use of the term pot still whiskey/singel pot still whiskey? Or just to the term IRISH Pot still?

Thanks for the respond!

There may be a slight mis translation there ...

It is made from 70% malt whiskey and 30% pot still whiskey

Wrong IWC

Shane from Irishman did a presentation last year for the society, and clearly stated; 70 means, it contain 70% malted barley and 30% unmalted barley and it is a pot still whiskey

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Well then it is a malt blend ... 70% malt and technically 30% grain whiskey

All this does is confuses the issue.


Can't people just be straight and stop using PR cloak and daggers to up sell something.

[bredman]

Well then it is a malt blend ... 70% malt and technically 30% grain whiskey

All this does is confuses the issue.

Confusing yes. Isn't a malt blend a blend of malt whiskies from two or more distilleries.


Upthread there was discussion on needing malted barley for enzymes. This is true, i read somewhere that the mash must be at least 10% malted barley as these enzymes are needed to work their magic. e.g. when 100% rye whisky is made these enzymes are still added to the mash.

[DavidH]

Shane from Irishman did a presentation last year for the society, and clearly stated; 70 means, it contain 70% malted barley and 30% unmalted barley and it is a pot still whiskey

He did say that, but it isn't so. I have spoken to Bernard Walsh about this a few times and I checked again after that presentation to be doubly sure. 70% malt whiskey, 30% pot still whiskey. I wrote up that tasting on my website:

http://www.liquidirish.com/2012/06/iris ... skeys.html

[Distiller]

Hey

You can have 70% malt and 30% barley in a pot still. There is a minimum amount of malt required for pot still but not a max. I think it is 30% but I can't find the papers. I am also fairly sure that the requirement is also for a mixed mash and not a blend of whiskey made from different starch. You are correct that a high level of unmalted barely is difficult to process. Not impossible and in Ireland as you can use enzymes. But I am fairly sure that there is a requirement for min of 30% malt in a mixed mash of barley.

Hope that helps

[DavidH]

There is a minimum amount of malt required for pot still but not a max.

Thanks for the info. Now I have new questions

It sounds like you are referring to a legal or agreed minimum there, but where is that defined?

[Distiller]

Hi David

The ISA has been working for the last few years on a industry defined category for Irish Whiskey and Pot Still. They have been trying to get the distilleries to agree on what is done so that EU laws and regs can be added for protection.

[JohnM]

Ralfy calls the John's Lane Powers a blend in his recent review, and the MIdleton Barry Crockett is called a blend in the Whisky Mag Awards... This confuses the rest of the world.

Neither of these are blends.