Dating bottles

[Joel1802]

No, I don't mean holding hands and going for walks along the harbour side.

With some of the old brands and bottlings I have come across I have found that a good deal of detective work can be required. In order to assist with some of the basics I though a thread might be useful that identifies some key dates for labelling requirements, bottle styles and such. For example: the requirement to include the statement regarding refilling or re-sale moulded in glass has helped me with my detective work on a US brand of Irish whiskey. In fact here it is along with other useful info:

http://www.ehow.com/how_8580629_date-bo ... cohol.html

Some regulations that could help date a bottle are:

When did the requirement to state proof and volume on labels begin in the UK and Ireland?

In the UK proof gave way to abv 1 Jan 1980.

When did Ireland adopt abv?

When did volume change from Imperial to metric in the Uk and in Ireland?

If a bottle is labelled as being produced in the Irish Free State that would put it between 1922 and 1937.

When did the Cork brands add the e to whisky?

When did Jameson add "Pot Still?"

When did Jameson remove "Pot Still?"

When did closures change from driven cork to cork stopper, so spring cap, to small screw cap, to large screw cap...

Please add anything that seems useful!

[Raven]

Down the country here in Ireland it could be confusing as bottles were extensively recycled by
whiskey bonders and spirit merchants before recycling was invented as a term --- glass was
expensive to produce. I have a number of empty bottles where there are a layer of 3/4 labels
on the bottle one pasted over the other !!

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

UK & Ireland

British Monarchs for dating references where the Royal Warrant is used.

Victoria (1837-1901)
Edward VII (1901-10)
George V (1910-36)
Edward VIII (1936) the King that never really became King
George VI (1936-52)
Elizabeth II (1952-present)


Ireland

Irish Free State
6th Dec 1922- 29th Dec 1937


US

If a obviously old bottle dose not have “federal law forbids sale or re use of this bottle” on it it is more than likely post 1934

"Federal Law" embossing putting it in the 1934-1962. Use may well have carried on after that on a phased out basis.

Prohibition

Congress passed the "Volstead Act" on October 28, 1919,

Into Law 17th Jan 1920
Repealed on December 5, 1933

If taken in conjunction with an American import of an Irish Bottling with the Irish free state you have a very narrow date band of 1933-1937


In the Tariff Act of 1930 the US stipulates that a country of origin mark has to be placed on all imports. The Country of origin mark has to be in English and in the form of “Made In ********” where ******* is the country’s name.

A lot can be read by the actual bottle too but no easy template to give. Research and experience is required to date the actual physical bottle. Taking into consideration glass quality moulding techniques etc. I'm no expert but it does help if you can spot obvious bottle eras.

And of course corks are they driven or topped etc lead foil all help to piece the picture together.

[Joel1802]

Another very useful source for dating bottles that I have found is old adverts from newspapers, magazines, and such. They come with two important bits of info: the date, and a picture of the bottle. Ebay is a gold mine for them, right now I'm sifting through a number of old Dunville's adverts, I'm hoping this will allow me to figure out when label changes occurred.

[Joel1802]

Dunville's VR labels

I have a half bottle of Dunville's VR in front of me that has DEC 1940 written on it in few places in pencil. It is the brownish label with a big red VR. On the back label it says the intricate green and red label was unchanged for for 94 years from the brands introduction in 1837. That puts the change to the cream label with big red VR around 1931. The brownish one followed later, but I don't have a date yet. By the way the price written on it (a half bottle) is 6/6 or 32 and a half p in new money!

until 1931:

http://www.whiskymarketplace.com/whiske ... sh-whiskey

after 1931:

http://www.whiskymarketplace.com/whiske ... sh-whiskey

Last label? In use 1940:

http://www.nickollsandperks.co.uk/produ ... 14682NVBND

[Joel1802]

Nuttall & Company, St. Helens, Lancashire. The company merged with some others to form United Glass in 1913 meaning all bottles bearing their mark will be 1913 or older

Bottle will be marked with N & C Ltd and a number or N & Co Ltd and a number.