Phoenix Ale

[PureDrop]

OK - not related to whiskey at all.

I went for a ramble on Sunday with the young lad (aged 9) - we stopped at McEvoys at Hazelhatch for a Coke & Tayto for him, Smithwicks shandy and crisps for me. McEvoys is a grand spot, particularly when Kildare are playing Dublin.
Anyway the language was a bit ripe in the pub, so we rambled into the lounge where we had the place to ourselves - the sun was streaming in and we sat up to the bar where we could take in the match and the lads in the pub part of the bar.

Now, our lad has very rarely been in a pub so this was a bit of a treat.
I started thinking of a time when after going for a walk up the line, my grandfather would take me into the Railway Bar in Charlestown (Mayo) for a bottle of Phoenix Ale (him) and a Zesto mineral & Tayto for me - a very special treat for me as our house was tea-total.
Anyways, what do I see on a shelf in McEvoys but a bottle (empty) of the same Phoenix Ale, brewed at the Cherry Brewery in Waterford. The bottle (1/2 pt) had a best before date of October 1989.

Given that the brew is now extinct (sad for a brew named Phoenix), and also given that I had searched before for images of the beer on the web without success, I thought I'd post a picture of a Phoenix Ale bottle here - it might be of interest to some passer by!.
Michael

[IainB]

Hi Michael,

Unfortunately never heard of the ale but the story very much reminded me of my own grandfather, for two reasons. One he was a lifelong Waterford hurling fan, and was one of the earliest members of his club. Secondly he used to take me for long walks in the countryside, mainly in Waterford in the area around Carrick on Suir, and sometimes in and around Bray where I grew up. We often would drop into a pub on route, a coke or something for me and a half bottle of stout and a whiskey for him. Unlike some poor kids who get brought to a pub regularly and ignored this was a wonderful experience for me at the time. We'd find a quiet spot, sit up at the bar, and have a chat.

My mother often says I seem to have some of his stories that no-one else in the family has. These are wonderful memories for me and thanks a mil for the reminder.

(By the way. I keep a picture of him beside the Redbreast and the Greenspot, apparently he used to love them.)

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

This behaviour is obviously straight from the grandfathers hand book ...

I too have similar memories ...

Long drives around Kerry on a Saturday and a pit stop at some pub. I reckon I had been in more pubs by the time I was 10 than my father had

My grandfather was welknown in North Kerry never mind our home town of Tralee. I had never seen the man drink more than a half pint of the black stuff and a whiskey but it never ceased to amaze me that he was known in all the pubs he went into and we visited a few over the years. It was probably down to his job but they all knew him and also knew what he would have, a half and a whiskey.

He was a great Jameson NAS man but I can remember he also like Crested Ten, Powers and Teachers. I know he had other brands too but nothing comes to mind, there was one with a tartan label but could be anything. Thinking back now it seems unusual for someone to have more than one favourite as most people then seemed to be very brand loyal.

I too can remember sitting at the bar feeling like the big little man with my bottle of Fanta and a straw ... finishing what felt like hours before my grandfather finished his half and whiskey but they were great outings and I really looked forward to them as a kid.

By the way i think I may have an old moulded Phoenix beer bottle will post a piuc tomorrow. WHo brewed Phoenix do you know ???

[IainB]

Little Big Man - That exactly sums up how it felt. Interesting to hear his choices - Jameson Powers Crested Ten and TEACHERS?? I wonder is that part unusual - don't ever remember my Grandad drinking scotch!

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Little Big Man - That exactly sums up how it felt. Interesting to hear his choices - Jameson Powers Crested Ten and TEACHERS?? I wonder is that part unusual - don't ever remember my Grandad drinking scotch!

I have no idea what he drank in the pub but I have memories of his bottles in his home and Teachers was a fairly regular one.

[PureDrop]

Who brewed Phoenix do you know ???

Cherry's Brewery.
See the pdf file at here
There's a bit here about the threat of the Cherry Brewery closing.
/M

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

The reason I asked was that I have an old beer bottle with the phoenix on the bottle in relief. However the name on it was P & H Egan Ltd of Tullamore.

P&H Egan Ltd

P&H Egans.JPG (116.09 KiB) Viewed 3156 times

Interestingly I found a historical account on them and they turn out to be quite a large company in Tullamore with various fingers in the alcohol industry.

MESSRS. P. & H. EGAN, TULLAMORE, BREWERS,
MALSTERS, WINE AND SPIRIT BONDERS, AND GENERAL MERCHANTS.

The Whiskey Store

This store was filled on all sides with casks of whiskey. Of these casks there were more than a dozen, of capacity varying from two hundred and fifty to one hundred and twenty gallons. Whiskey of every make and age was to be found in this store, for Messrs. P. & H. Egan bottle an immense quantity of the native spirit. The firm do a very large case-whiskey trade, both in Ireland and across the Channel, and customers of theirs are to be found in every city and town in Ireland, from Dublin to Galway and from Belfast to Cork. Several men were employed on the day of our visit bottling, capsuling and casing the whiskey in this store.

The casks are massive 120 gallons being the smallest isnow equivelent to a Butt or just under 550 liters. The 250 gallon casks would be what they call Tun's or circa 1170Liters

For the full article which covers the beer and wine bottling and brewing see HERE

[PureDrop]

Hello Adrian,
I hadn't seen the connection between Phoenix Ale and Egans before - but as you know, they were general bottlers.
That's one of the reasons I'm so happy to have a P&H Egan Barge on our "Grand Crew" label - its not beyond the bounds of reality that P&H Egan bottled Locke's amongst others. We know they transported Dublin Whiskey (likely aboard the barge in the photo) to Tullamore for bottling.
I've no idea if Phoenix Ale was transported from Waterford up the Barrow to Egans for bottling.
For those of you who have never been on the water, the trip up the Barrow from Waterford to Tullamore by canal is simply magical. I did it in 2000 on a rented barge (from St. Mullins on the Barrow to Tullamore) - simply wonderful.

Cherry's bought another brewery in Laois in 1957 - see http://www.laois.ie/YourCouncil/Publications/Heritage/FileDownload,1780,en.pdf. However the info at http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/heritage-towns/towns-and-villages-of-lao/rathdowney/perrys-brewery/ doesn't mention Phoenix Ale among the output.

NOW it could be the other way around ...
http://www.brewerytap.com/history.html tells us that Egans bought a brewery in 1884 and that the Phoenix was the emblem of Tullamlore following the destruction of the town by a hot-air-balloon fire ... possibly more digging required.

Thanks for posting the pic of the embossed bottle.
/Michael

[JohnM]

My wife is from Rathdowney. I've often heard about the brewery. They have some of the old bottles in the pubs there, empty. There's still people in the town who worked there. A farmer there regularly ploughs up old bottles, some of them with liquid still in them.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Your theory on the Phoenix coming from the 1795 Balloon disaster could very well have it. See HERE for details on that

This has turned out to be a very interesting thread ... cheers Michael