Need IWS Members Help in Compiling Whiskey List

[Whiskey Bar]

Hello
I'm in the process of compiling a whiskey list for a new bar in Ireland (can't reveal the location until the list is complete). I want to ensure that the list is as complete as possible and I was wondering if IWS members could put forward their ideas for the list. Ideally, all the bottles on offer in the bar have to be available to buy fairly easily.

Thanks in advance

[Good Whiskey Hunting]

I would recommend you look at The Vat House's menu. They have a huge list of Irish Whiskey.
I found it to be very comprehensive. They have some listed which are no longer available from retailers, but you would find that there are members here that would be able to source them for you.
When it comes to the Americans, Japanese and Scottish whiskeys, well that another story.
I'd recommend you look at some of the members collections and this would give you a gauge as to tastes and brands that are popular.
Hopefully you'll get lots of replies.
Best wishes in your endeavours.

[Good Whiskey Hunting]

Whiskey Pilgrim has a large collection in Spain in an Irish Bar.
He posted here earlier
viewtopic.php?f=41&p=13164#p13164

[JohnM]

I recommend you don't copy the prices from the Vat House menu, though!

[matt]

I recommend you don't copy the prices from the Vat House menu, though!

Oh yes..... i agree with you.

But a nice bar to go for visitors. I personally like the cooper cabinet hanging on top off the bar

[Whiskey Bar]

I've already sourced a good few of the bottles from Ally, Diageo and IDL. I'll put up my list tomorrow and let me know what you think.

[IainB]

I really hope it's you that's doing up the bridge tavern in wicklow town. Wishful thinking I know but where there's hope............

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

I recommend you don't copy the prices from the Vat House menu, though!

On that point and this is one of the main bug bears I have with alot (not all) specialist whiskey bars. it's the pricing. Firstly bear in mind that once a whiskey goes over 10euro customers need to seriously consider the value on offer. Have large selections at €5, €7.50 & €10 is key to building a good trade in whiskey sales.

Now back to my bug bear which seems to be an Indusrty standard of tripling the ex-vat price or even the retail shot price to get the bar counter price. This works nicely for standard whiskeys where the sale can be generalised to 1/3 product cost 1/3 Tax and 1/3 gross profit. So every body happy there as that is the norm. But step up to say Midleton VR which retails at circa €145 at retail. So circa €7.65 retail per shot. However seeing it in bars for €22 a shot (which I have) it actually quite maddening and for me illogical .

Why???

The stats on a Midleton VR

1 bottle = 19 shots
ex-vat price = €117.89
Price per shot ex vat €6.20.

Sale price of say €19 as per the vat house. Less vat = €15.64

Less Price per shot ex vat @ €6.20 = gross profit of €9.44.

And As I've also seen it for sale at the €10 mark which is only a €2 gross profit for the bar.

I really can't see any justification in these sort of pricing strategy and as the bottle price increases the gross profit becomes more excessive.

For these simple reasons I refuse to buy premium whiskeys in bars. Obviously we don't expect you to make only €1.50 gross profit on a Midleton VR either but a fair pricing strategy is all that is required.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

In relation to a decent offering Ally is probably the best stocked so your already mostly there as there is not much else on the market that he would not have.

Any rarities you'll probably need to get off the collectors market.

Don't forget to have a few nice Scotches too

[DavidH]

For these simple reasons I refuse to buy premium whiskeys in bars.

Same here. The price of a drink should cover costs and add a fixed premium for the luxury of sitting down and enjoying it right there. That premium makes soft drinks seem expensive but I think that's fair. What I don't like is an inflated premium for the non-basic whiskeys. I take it as a signal that the bar doesn't really want me there. The signal works.

[Good Whiskey Hunting]

While everyone would agree with both your comments, It appears that accountants now dictate the GP margins for various product lines.
From a publicans point of view they do not want to alter their margins because it has lead to audits in the past. Even if you are totally compliant the burden of proof is on you.
I know quiet a few publicans that have been audited in recent years and it's lead to a couple of closures. For that reason most will trust their accountants or whom ever is in charge of stock takes to monitor the percentages.

[Good Whiskey Hunting]

There is a pub that i have the occasional whiskey in that sell Redbreast at €3.90 and Woodford Reserve at €6.50. I'm sure that they are unaware that the Redbreast is about €5 a bottle dearer. While I often feel the urge to point this out, I have decided I should mind my own business and keep drinking the redbreast.

[IainB]

While everyone would agree with both your comments, It appears that accountants now dictate the GP margins for various product lines.
From a publicans point of view they do not want to alter their margins because it has lead to audits in the past. Even if you are totally compliant the burden of proof is on you.
I know quiet a few publicans that have been audited in recent years and it's lead to a couple of closures. For that reason most will trust their accountants or whom ever is in charge of stock takes to monitor the percentages.

Sorry but I'm an accountant and auditor and I don't buy that at all. Any publican who says that is just waffling. Yes poor margins could lead to a Revenue audit but there isn't a pub in the country that sells enough premium whiskey to have any material impact on their margins. I think you'll find that most publicans are perfectly capable of setting their own prices without any reference to accountants.

[Good Whiskey Hunting]

It is true that the amount of premium whiskey sales would have little or no effect on the margins. But I know publicans are more aware than ever that margins are been looked at by revenue.

This isn't helping Whiskey Bar get collection together too. Sorry for straying of topic. It tends to happen quiet often.

Anyway i'd advise having all the available Single Pot Stills including Dungourney. I really wouldn't stock limited runs because the prices are often a reflection of their rarity rather than their quality.
Of course Cooley's have a great selection that caters for various tastes.
Bushmills have their malts and Blackbush of course.
Writers Tears is making great in roads of late and the Hot Irishman is also getting a name for itself.
When it comes to Scotch I've little knowledge about their numerous brands and variations, i'd say stick with what sells too. The classic malts collection is a great introduction to various tastes. I'm all Speyside at the moment. I've went off Islay for some reason,probably since i'm off cigarettes.
As for the Americans, Woodford Reserve is out in front there. But again I don't know many brands either. The Japanese have great Whiskey too. I've even had a nice Belgian lately.

Contributions anyone?

[kurtbenoit]

In terms of what I have in the bar.
American- We shift more Makers Mark and Jim Beam than Jack.
Japanese- I can't get the boss to dip his toe in this market.
Scotch- Only Glenfiddich
Irish- Our Collection is front and centre and is the first thing you see behind the bar, easily readable menu with fair (in my mind) prices.
e.g. Midleton @ 10 euro, Jameson 18 year old @ 8.50 euro. With a handful of single casks and limited runs. We keep about 30 bottles in the collection, if something is gathering dust it will be promoted and once it's gone, it's gone. We always try to get new releases so we have a rotating collection as opposed to a vast collection. So far it seems to be working but I can understand the selling point of having a huge collection too.

[DavidH]

This isn't helping Whiskey Bar get collection together too. Sorry for straying of topic.

It's not off topic. What I wrote above about pricing is directly relevant to compiling a whiskey list. Those who might order the fancier whiskeys know how much they cost and are well able to figure out if they are being ripped off. The content of the list is only half the story. Get the pricing wrong and you will annoy your customers instead of attracting them.

(And kurtbenoit's Midleton at €10 is a really good indicator of fair pricing )

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Which brings us to an important point. The promotion of your whiskey in the Bar.

It won't sell well unless you make a concerted effort to make the whiskey approachable.

Anything outside of the regular whiskeys the majority of people are confused so you need to help people along.

Firstly having a good display will impress your customers and get their curiosity going. However anybody who is unsure or has little knowledge may find it intimidating to ask about the whiskeys behind the bar. Therefore make up a Whiskey Menu so people can browse at their leisure. Basically a list of your whiskeys with a basic taste description of the whiskey.

Then having the some staff knowledgeable in the subject will also be very helpful.

Whiskey of the week or month is always a good idea. Where one whiskey is on promotion for the week or month and gets people trying other whiskeys. Broadening peoples taste base.

Whiskey tasting boards. i.e. 5 different whiskeys for xEuro, half (1.5cl or 2cl) measures is an option here to keep the apparent cost down. This again may encourage people to try different whiskeys and it may even encourage a group of friends to get it a go together.

[kurtbenoit]

In terms of helping educate people, keep it simple, each whiskey on our menu is accompanied by 2 sentences max. Most of them are described by Ally from CWS. i.e. Copied and pasted from the CWS website, with his permission of course. Tasting notes, interesting history, etc.

[Good Whiskey Hunting]

This isn't helping Whiskey Bar get collection together too. Sorry for straying of topic.

It's not off topic. What I wrote above about pricing is directly relevant to compiling a whiskey list. Those who might order the fancier whiskeys know how much they cost and are well able to figure out if they are being ripped off. The content of the list is only half the story. Get the pricing wrong and you will annoy your customers instead of attracting them.

(And kurtbenoit's Midleton at €10 is a really good indicator of fair pricing )

I was referring to me going on about publicans getting worried about audits.

I agree totally with you about getting the pricing right.
Kurtbenoit pricing is excellent, knowing what sells and a reasonable price for it.( Probably a secondhand car salesman in him trying to get out )

Staff training is essential too.
A thing that I find here is, if someone sees a bottle of Irish their not familiar with they assume it's a cheap substitute for Jameson or something. This has happened to me when we got Greenspot in first, I was asked was it a yellowpack whiskey.
Keep up the good work Martin.