finally purchased grain

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Dave please explain further. I know what the alt key is but the Gr??? is a mystery.

It is possibly different on US key boards but the ALT GR button (as opposed to the just ALT) is a button that is usually right of the space bar. Again US computers may not have these inflections.

You could just try and copy and paste

Móna

or

MÓNA

[scotty]

ok thanks-

[scotty]

here are the pictures of the grain mashing

this is the distilled water to which i added the "DUBLIN WATER SALTS"


THIS IS THE 10 GALLONS/ABOUT 38 LITERS THAT I ADDED 16.5 POUNDS/ A BIT LESS THAN 8 KILOS OF GRAIN TO



AT 145 DEGREES F. i added the amylases



The grain is very swolen here because i calculated the wrong amount of amylase and had to add it a second time. Tke mashing that was suposed to last 90 minutes lasted 3 hours. when we were draining the liquid the filter bed was so dense that we had to take the grain out by hand and squeese it in pourous cloth
WE ARE LEARNING FROM THIS.



HERE IS THE LIQUOR READY FOR THE YEAST AND A BUCKET CONTAINING THE SPENT GRAIN. wE HAVE NOTHING TO FEED IT TO. SHAME

[rathbeggan]

To go back to the fadas, as Scotty says there is no "AltGr" key on US keyboards. If you have a "character map" programme you can copy accented vowels from there.

"Mountainy men" is another description of rural dwellers, less pejorative than some of the other expressions.

By the way, DavidH mentioned further up this thread that the reason for the development of pot still was that malted barley was taxed higher than unmalted. My memory is that it was actually the Irish parliament ("Grattan's parliament) in the 18th century, before the Act of Union, which imposed a higher tax on malt, rather than the UK Parliament. I'm basing this on my memory of E B McGuire's book "Irish Whiskey". Others may correct me.

[scotty]

Are you saying that poteen may have been made with mostly unmalted barly?

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Are you saying that poteen may have been made with mostly unmalted barly?

Poteen could be made with anything as they paid no tax what so ever

But alot would of been done with out malted barley as it was easier and quicker but the better stuff is made with malted barley or at least some malt content.

[DavidH]

By the way, DavidH mentioned further up this thread that the reason for the development of pot still was that malted barley was taxed higher than unmalted. My memory is that it was actually the Irish parliament ("Grattan's parliament) in the 18th century, before the Act of Union, which imposed a higher tax on malt, rather than the UK Parliament. I'm basing this on my memory of E B McGuire's book "Irish Whiskey".

Quite right, thank you! I checked the dates in McGuire: the malt duty was imposed in 1785 and finally removed in 1855. In 1801, legislative powers were transferred from Dublin to London. It's a very complicated story in McGuire and I just skimmed it but it looks like even after Union that the rules were not identical in Ireland and Scotland.

Something else I just learned from the book: the use of unmalted grain was also banned by the act that introduced the malt duty. Again it's complicated, and distillers "continued to use" raw grain according to McGuire. That implies to me that unmalted grain was used before the malt duty was imposed. And it seems remarkable that the PPS style survived if it was illegal to make.

I don't know... there is clearly more to the origins of the PPS style than a malt tax.

[scotty]

dave, i cant understand why a particular type of still is included in the law. In whiskey making i believe that only a pot still((not refracting types) is an absolute must in whiskey making in order to avoid stripping the flavour out of the product.

Could it be that people were using plain alcohol and doctoring it to resemble whiskeys? I have done just that with burbon and rye. Toasred Wood chips for the color and taste, Rye grain infusion, Glycerine for smoothness anda touch of vanilla where applicable.

[rathbeggan]

Scotty,

As Whiskey Chaser says, poteen could be made from anything but some malt would be needed to get the fermentation going.

The type of still used for Irish whiskey is no longer laid down by law. "Irish Pot Still Whiskey" was legally defined in the Irish Whiskey Act 1950:

"1.—For the purpose of subsection (9) of section 105 of the Spirits Act, 1880 (which relates to the accuracy of the description of spirits in a permit or certificate)—
(a) spirits described as Irish Whiskey shall not be deemed to correspond to that description unless they have been obtained by distillation in the State from a mash of malt and cereals, and
(b) spirits described as Irish Pot Still Whiskey shall not be deemed to correspond to that description unless they have been obtained by distillation solely in pot stills in the State from a mash of cereal grains such as are ordinarily grown in the State saccharified by the diastase of malted barley."

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1950/en/ ... .html#sec1

However, that Act was repealed by the Irish Whiskey Act 1980, which has no definition of "Irish Pot Still Whiskey", only of "Irish Whiskey":

1.—(1) For the purposes of any statute or instrument made under statute spirits described as Irish whiskey shall not be regarded as corresponding to that description unless the requirements regarding spirits contained in subsection (3) of this section are complied with as regards the spirits.

(2) For any of the purposes mentioned in subsection (1) of this section spirits described as blended Irish whiskey shall not be regarded as corresponding to that description unless—
(a) the spirits comprise a blend of two or more distillates, and
(b) the requirements regarding spirits contained in subsection (3) of this section are complied with as regards each of the distillates.

(3) The following are the requirements referred to in subsections (1) and (2) of this section regarding spirits;
(a) the spirits shall have been distilled in the State or in Northern Ireland from a mash of cereals which has been—
(i) saccharified by the diastase of malt contained therein, with or without other natural diastases,
(ii) fermented by the action of yeast, and
(iii) distilled at an alcoholic strength of less than 94.8% by volume in such a way that the distillate has an aroma and flavour derived from the materials used,
and
(b) the spirits shall have been matured in wooden casks—
(i) in warehouse in the State for a period of not less than three years, or
(ii) in warehouse in Northern Ireland for such a period, or
(iii) in warehouse in the State and in Northern Ireland for periods the aggregate of which is not less than three years.

(4) For the purposes of subsection (3) of this section the alcoholic strength at which spirits are distilled shall be ascertained in the same manner as that in which such ascertainment is for the time being arrived at for the purposes of customs and excise.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/ ... .html#sec1

So the type of still is no longer laid down, but the use of malt for "saccharification" purposes is still required.

[scotty]

Yes we all seem to agree that true Irish or irish style whiskey must use malt to catalyse the starch to sugar conversion.
Only in northern /Ireland confuses me a bit.
The poteen that i am making now is just that. Irish moonshine and i guess it doesnt fall under any laws or formulas.

Comments please.

[rathbeggan]

Scotty,

To be called "Irish whiskey" it has to be made in Ireland. Similarly, Scotch whisky (or Scots whisky, which you sometimes see) has to be made in Scotland. I think the same is true of Kentucky or Tennessee whiskey.

David H has a post on his blog from a couple of years ago with a bit more detail about the definition of Irish whiskey:

http://www.irishwhiskeynotes.com/2007/1 ... iskey.html

[scotty]

Actually we have agreed to call my product "IRISH STYLE WHISKEY"

I wonder if the pope would grant a dispensation if Sean, the mechanic at the motorcycle shop helped me do the mashing. Sean was born and raised in Irelnd

[scotty]

I notice that the amylase is added as an ingredient, rather than coming from malted barley as it would in Irish whiskey. Not having any malt in the mix must have a big influence on flavour. It's a very interesting experiment. I guess none of the rest of us has tried a 100% unmalted barley whiskey but I'm sure we would all love to.

Please keep posting your progress. It's very inspiring and educational!

Dave i'm just re reading the posts. This flavor thing is areal concern to me not only because i can't tell good whiskey from bad but i guess i want to learn more from my poteen making that i can apply to my irish style whiskey made from malted barley.

I already dont care for the rolled un malted barley because i end up with an oatmeal when mashing. i still have 2 more batches to run which i will do with a diferent method to produceless goo lol.

i was wondering if you or anyone else had any thoughts about the flavor diference.
Is/or will there really be a diference.
iguess i need a member that lives in the usa to give the results a taste. shipping to ireland would probably get us all thrown in the klink.

My tasters live 1100 miles from here.

[scotty]

A friend that lives nearby used to be in the moonshine business. we were talking abut corn whiskey. well at one point he said that they would malt thier own corn because the malting gave it such a superior flavour.

well i have found malted barley at a fair price shipped to me-- now im waiting for a couple of fittings to upgrade my mash kettle and finish my potcheen.

the irish style whiskey will now definitely be an all malt mash. im glad i didnt rush. alll the input from you folks has really educated me.

thanks

Go raibh maith agaibh

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Well all I can say Scotty is that you really have been on a mission and fair play for persevering. The all malt mash seems like a good idea for taste and flavour etc.

Best of luck with the project and looking forward to hearing about the results.

[scotty]

You folks have educated me-- i want to do it correctly-- thanks for the encouragement.

im cleaning up the potcheen project soon-- i'm dying to do the all malt mash.

[scotty]

WELL, TODAY WE STARTED MASHING THE SECOND batch of flaked barley for the potcheen-- i wont post pictures because its the same pot i used earlier in the thread. After this, i have one more batch of flaked barley to mash. then, after ferming them, ill distill the thre batches so we can finally get to my irish style whiskey. I counting on as much input as you folks care to give.

Feumaidh mi ruith

[Mr Booze]

I am late to the party, but recently have been doing some experiments that may help you on your quest.

First, that malting the barley will probably have a different flavor profile than adding amylase to unmalted barley. The reason is that when barley malts it uses proteins to make the rootlet and acrospire which grows inside the barelycorn. Beer brewers are particularly keen about this because more protein will make a cloudier beer. However I can't say for sure if the distilling process will eliminate the proteins, so I don't know how much the flavor will change if at all. I'm very curious about this because I am considering brewing beer that will use malted barley and unmalted grains.

Second, that some people claim the water hardness matters but I haven't seen any real side by side analysis. However, there are pizza makers out there who swear that the sort of water they use to make the dough gives the crust the uniqueness they seek. Making dough is similar to making beer and whiskey so maybe it is so? May also be poppycock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York-style_pizza

"The flavor of the crust has sometimes been attributed to the minerals present in the New York City water used to make the dough.[1] Some out-of-state pizza makers even transport the water cross-country for the sake of authenticity."

Finally, to make characters with an accent on an American keyboard you hold down the Alt key and type in the numbers correlating the ASCII code. For example to make é hold the Alt key and type the numbers 0 2 3 3 and the é will appear. ó is 0243, ö is 0246 (for all you Mötorhead fans).

I'd love to hear how this turns out.

[scotty]

Hey thanks for the input.. Definitely 100% malted barley. Your input about the NY pizza is true. We also cry about the taste of tomatoes.

Well somewhere in my chatter with david i mentioned that i found the proper pre packaged salts and minerals to imitate dublin water. So for the Irish style beverage it's the dublin salts and the kentucky and burton on trent beverages i will use my burton water salts. Naturally both will be used wit distilled water that has had the PH corrected also

Just a note I'm goilg for a hip replacemens ib 5 days so ill be healing for a month or more.
I will not neglect my Irish style whiskey project

See yall soon
Scotty

[DavidH]

Best of luck with the hip op, Scotty. I'm sure the whole forum wishes you back on your feet in no time

[scotty]

thanks Dave-- and again i wait to get the irish style whiskey going. Well wit hall the conersation that we had i believe that i will make a respectable clone