St. Patrick's Day - USA vs Ireland

[Mothrae]

I've always wondered how the celebration of Beannachtai na Feile Padraig compares from the USA to Ireland.

Here in the USA, it is the second place finisher for the extreme overuse of alcohol (New Year's Eve is #1). People literally turn green (paint, clothes, fingernail polish, hair, etc) and consume green things (pizza, beer, bagels, anything that can be treated with green food coloring). They act like idiots, bars and taverns are avoided by those who don't wish to act stupid, lots of fights, drunken driving accidents and arrests, alcohol poisoning, hospital visits for various alcohol-related problems, and so on. Parades within two weeks either side of March 17 (so the different parades don't clash dates) with most spectators and a lot of marchers drunk.

It is embarrassing for those of us actually descended from real Irish folks. I steer clear of the (usually destructive) party atmosphere.

I know that St. Pat's is an official exemption from Lent, but I couldn't find anyone here who practices it anymore. (Might be some pious Catholics left around here, but they must be hiding)

How is the celebration handled in Ireland? I've asked some of my cousins, still with the Auld Sod, and I can't get a decent answer.

Keep 'em guessing...wear all black on St. Patrick's Day

Slainte!

[DavidH]

I didn't realise you had all that trouble in the US. I imagined it was more wholesome, for some reason.

I haven't been to the parade in many years but I do see it on the TV. It has more razzmatazz these days - something we learned from you guys. It's also more of a "festival" than just a parade now. The city authorities try to keep it family friendly but unfortunately the day has an indelible association with excessive drinking, arrests, etc.

I'm observing Lent, as it happens. Not for religious reasons, and just the giving-stuff-up part. I won't take a break for Paddy's Day because it makes that chocolate egg on Easter Sunday all the more delicious

[jcskinner]

I've always seen it primarily as a Christian festival and as a cultural celebration of Irish-America.
It got imported here just like we imported the 'plastic paddy' pub culture we had sent around the world, reaping our own whirlwind.
Normally I try to leave the country around this time. This year I'll be working, more's the pity.
If it makes sense anywhere, it's in places like New York and Boston. But these days, it's a multicultural drinking session that I feel maligns the name of Ireland.
Here's what I thought of last year's 'festival' in Dublin:
http://skinflicks.blogspot.com/2009/03/ ... st-09.html

[Mothrae]

Thank you fellows for the answers. I had always assumed, through reports from some of my older relatives, that things were more dignified in Ireland. "Dignity" doesn't apply in most places in the US. Just a big excuse to drink to excess and party. Everyone is Irish on March 17, they dress in green outfits they wouldn't dare wear on Halloween / Samhain, and drink. And drink. And drink.

The bigger Irish populations, such as New York City and Boston, of course have their traditional annual parades, huge affairs that get bigger each year. They all start out with dignity, but by the time the parades end, things get crazy, almost like riots in some places. There's an "alleged" Irish pub not far from where I live. One year my Dad and I went there to have a taste, about 10 in the morning, on St. Patty's Day. The owner said there were people at the door before he opened at 7 am. And they were already drunk.

(Want to have fun? Stop by an American Irish pub and order in Irish. Nothing but blank stares! No Irish spoken in an Irish pub? Blasphemy!)

Takes the fun out of it for me. I prefer something quiet, maybe I'm getting old. A nice dinner with my family, and with traditional food, like BOILED BACON!!! Corned beef is a travesty! Another Americanized holiday gone nuts.

Rant over, I feel better now.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Go back a few years and it was a very parochial event very much tied into the schools and local associations and I suppose still is in lots of small towns around the country.

As JC says it had quite a religious slant for a long time but we bought into the US version a while back so it is a big party now even though it was always a big drinking session too just more muted in behaviour. I must admit I never heard about the St Patricks days consession to lent.

Dublin unfortunately I think has done too good a job over the last few years creating a carnival aspect to the whole day and this has also brought out the yobs drinking on the street. It has always been a large drinking day but in recent times it has got messy but I don't think it is as bad as it has been reported with a small precentage ruining it for others. I suppose any big population with a day like this can get very messy. I must say though in all my years I have never once witnessed any unsocial behaviour during Paddy's day. However I have seen many very very drunk people. It really irks me to see that people can't enjoy our national day without getting totally plastered and yet keeping alive the hiddeous derogatory tag line "The Fighting Irish" when used in conjunction to the drinking culture. But we have no one to blame but ourselves ... maybe we need to send our drinking instructors to our American cousins to get them up to speed for Paddy's Day

[Mothrae]

No thanks, we don't need any drinking instructors. These lushes do just fine bending their elbows.

I only learned of the Lent connection a couple of weeks ago myself, reading it in an Irish-American newspaper (The Irish Voice). Makes sense, if most of the guys give up the drink for Lent, so how would they be allowed to celebrate March 17 if there wasn't some kind of exemption? St. Patrick is Catholic, right? Must be "approved" somehow

I haven't been Catholic for a long time, I forget most of it. The rules probably changed anyway...

[brettie vedder]

i think it just depends where you go on paddys mothrae. if you go to younger crowd bars then you are sure to deal with assholery and tomfoolery. me and my family would always start with a nice breakfast and a few drinks at home. then we would go to a nice laid back pub for a meal and drinks. music would start later in the day and they would serve some traditional irish meals. always had great times and never had any issues with drunks. some people will always get carried away though. and not just in america...all over the world. ive seen my fair share of bad drunks here in ireland too. i think there just might be more in america because its 300 million people vs. 4 million

[John]

My take on this is that people are the same all over the world. Even in those countries that profess themselves to be alcohol-free, the realities on the ground tend to be quite different to the mantras - fig wine anyone! Anyway, as was pointed out earlier on, St. Patrick's Day is now far more of a secular party than a religious day of observence and a perfect excuse for anyone who is so inclined to simply get 'hammered'.

I will however continue to do my utmost to avoid the ususal 'I told you so' as and when I meet the errant bon-viveurs who have decided that mixing Guinness, Miller, Peach Snapps, Paddy and Jaegerbombs is a good idea.

I prefer a distinctly more relaxed pace

John.

[Mothrae]

Well folks, the Plastic Paddy is alive and well over here. It's started. *groan*

A shame where people have to carry on like they do.

Enjoy the day, folks. Me, just a regular work day for me, then to Mom's for supper. Boiled bacon and cabbage, naturally. We never do corned beef. Blecch.

Beannachtai na Feile Padraig! Slainte' go maith!

[cathach]

You know I'd never heard about the corned beef thing until an american told me about it. It was bought off Jewish butchers in New York as it was the cheapest thing available wasn't it?

I hate bacon and cabbage, I'll have a glass of Powers instead to celebrate.

[brettie vedder]

celebrating paddys in galway with a traditional meal of old el paso taco salad, LOL. did have a few jamesons earlier and some red wine with dinner.

jews love corned beef. pastrami is big in the NYC delis. ive never had corned beef and cabbage. my grandmother made bacon and cabbage, but boiling bacon is called ham in america. streaky bacon = american bacon and rashers = canadian bacon. we need universal names for these foods

[Mothrae]

According to my grandfather, a walking history book, the Americanization of St. Pat's came about in the cities, where immigrants of all origins lived and blended together, and shared their festivals and holidays. Corned beef was cheaper than ham or pork, and the Jews obviously couldn't eat pork products, so corned beef sort of became the official meal of the day. Over here, "boiled bacon" is pork loin, or thick boneless pork chops. Some insist on ham, which is okay too, but I prefer the pork. Our family meal last night was boiled bacon, cabbage, red potatoes, and soda bread. Pretty traditional I guess.

Some Guinness, some Harp, some Bushmills, and some Tullamore. *hic*

When it comes to a real Jewish deli sandwich or a reuben, I prefer pastrami over corned beef any day.

I have ham or pork and cabbage about once a month, sometimes more often. I like it!

[brettie vedder]

According to my grandfather, a walking history book, the Americanization of St. Pat's came about in the cities, where immigrants of all origins lived and blended together, and shared their festivals and holidays. Corned beef was cheaper than ham or pork, and the Jews obviously couldn't eat pork products, so corned beef sort of became the official meal of the day. Over here, "boiled bacon" is pork loin, or thick boneless pork chops. Some insist on ham, which is okay too, but I prefer the pork. Our family meal last night was boiled bacon, cabbage, red potatoes, and soda bread. Pretty traditional I guess.

Some Guinness, some Harp, some Bushmills, and some Tullamore. *hic*

When it comes to a real Jewish deli sandwich or a reuben, I prefer pastrami over corned beef any day.

I have ham or pork and cabbage about once a month, sometimes more often. I like it!

i lived in america for 26 years, and i called "pork loin" "pork loin". boiling bacon is just smoked or cured like ham, which turns it pink. ive never heard of anyone in ireland having pork and cabbage.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

As ye are all aware Pork is the general term for all pig meat but in general Pork on this side of the pond is used for Roasting and is not cured. So your right there Brett


Ham is the hind leg and is usually cured but not neccessairly. It is traditionally boilded and then roast finished with or with out the bone.

Bacon is a cheaper cut to Ham, rolled and tied to make a nice round joint, again cured and is more often than not just boiled.

Loin is the back which can be cut in numerous ways. Pork chops with or with out bone. This part can be boned and cured to get back bacon which can be sliced to get rashers (frying bacon).

Pork fillet is taken from under the loin as like fillet beef.

I had roasted back bacon and potatoes yesterday but it was not a consious decision for the day that was in it. No cabbage though.

Bacon and cabbage was a very traditional meal here a good few years back but not as popular anymore. We used to have it regularly on Saturday when I was growing up. The trick was to cook/boil the bacon cabbage and carrots all in the same pot and them some lovely mash to go with it ... ahhh they were the good old days

[brettie vedder]

As ye are all aware Pork is the general term for all pig meat but in general Pork on this side of the pond is used for Roasting and is not cured. So your right there Brett


Ham is the hind leg and is usually cured but not neccessairly. It is traditionally boilded and then roast finished with or with out the bone.

Bacon is a cheaper cut to Ham, rolled and tied to make a nice round joint, again cured and is more often than not just boiled.

Loin is the back which can be cut in numerous ways. Pork chops with or with out bone. This part can be boned and cured to get back bacon which can be sliced to get rashers (frying bacon).

Pork fillet is taken from under the loin as like fillet beef.

I had roasted back bacon and potatoes yesterday but it was not a consious decision for the day that was in it. No cabbage though.

Bacon and cabbage was a very traditional meal here a good few years back but not as popular anymore. We used to have it regularly on Saturday when I was growing up. The trick was to cook/boil the bacon cabbage and carrots all in the same pot and them some lovely mash to go with it ... ahhh they were the good old days

not only is he a whisk(e)y pro, he is also a butcher, hahahhaaha. thanks for clearing all that up adrian. bacon and cabbage is delicious, but pork and sauerkraut it awesome. its a polish/german meal. i toss keilbasa in there with some hot dogs too. put it in the slow cooker and instant meal in 6 hours..and enough leftovers for 2 days after. goes great with a wheat beer

[Mothrae]

Tasty thread, isn't it?

I won't be able to keep myself at 135 lbs if this talk continues...

[GSC]

A year later . . . and the 2011 Green Season is here.

A few parades have already been marched, with more to come. The craziness has begun.

Happy St, Patrick's Day to all.

[JohnM]

I like St Patrick's Day. It's a day off work, or double pay. And there are good things around the country. It's pretty easy to avoid the chaos.

[Mothrae]

I don't dislike the holiday at all. Maybe some of my posts sounded that way. My gripes are about how other people try to ruin it, in the course of celebrating. I do enjoy the day, spending it with family and friends, good food and drink, and avoiding the chaos.

It isn't a day off from work here in the US, unless you take a sick day or personal day. Seems that a lot of people do just that! It's not a "day off holiday" like other American manufactured holidays (Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, and New Years Day).

The green-white-orange is flying from my flagpole.

[GSC]

I have to work two jobs on Mar 17, so I won't see much of anything this year. About an hour and a half between jobs for supper. Not sure if my wife wants to boil up cabbage just for a my quick stopover.

Like to hear what the folks here did to celebrate.

[SixCats!]

3/17/2011

HAPPY ST. PATRICKS DAY all from Master Thomas Patrick Shortall, Jr. (Maine, U.S.A.)

I'm quietly enjoying a St. Paddy's Day dram of REDBREAST.

Regards,
SixCats!

[GSC]

Looks like we survived another one. I drove by the local "Irish" pub, the place where people go on March 17, and the parking lot was still full at 11 PM. Bet the local constabulary had a profitable night handing out tickets and DWI arrests.

[cathach]

I only learned of the Lent connection a couple of weeks ago myself, reading it in an Irish-American newspaper (The Irish Voice). Makes sense, if most of the guys give up the drink for Lent, so how would they be allowed to celebrate March 17 if there wasn't some kind of exemption? St. Patrick is Catholic, right? Must be "approved" somehow

I haven't been Catholic for a long time, I forget most of it. The rules probably changed anyway...

Well you see as a Saint's feast day and the patron saint of Ireland's day it would have been a day where you do not follow your Lenten obligations. There are a number of them, for example Sundays are not included in Lent, other days would vary from place to place. Also St. Patricks Day used to be a dry holiday in Ireland like Good Friday (which is dry but not a Bank Holiday), and even now pubs etc. can only open after 12.30pm.

A really traditional version would be to put a sprig of shamrock on your coat or jacket, go to mass and then watch the parade afterwards, normally with a fine mist blowing in your face. Then home again for dinner.

[GSC]

"Well you see as a Saint's feast day and the patron saint of Ireland's day it would have been a day where you do not follow your Lenten obligations. There are a number of them, for example Sundays are not included in Lent, other days would vary from place to place. Also St. Patricks Day used to be a dry holiday in Ireland like Good Friday (which is dry but not a Bank Holiday), and even now pubs etc. can only open after 12.30pm.

A really traditional version would be to put a sprig of shamrock on your coat or jacket, go to mass and then watch the parade afterwards, normally with a fine mist blowing in your face. Then home again for dinner."


I'll never understand all the rules of Catholicism. I like the last line above, the traditional version of mass, parade, and home. Keep it simple.