Independent bottlers v Distillery

[Michael Foggarty]

I have long tried to find an independent bottler that i like after trying several and several hundred whiskies i can only really say there is one bottler i like, i now tried to avoid independent\t stuff as much as possible as they are more or less all substanard.

Anyway last night i was in my favourite whisky bar in the world (1250+ whiskies), alot of these whiskies are form independents, so i plucked up the courage and orderers G+M St Magdalene 19 year old at 25 euro a pop, once again a complete let down, forgetting the 25 euro i thought i was drinking liquid oak a faint hint of vanilla now and again, this was clearly a poor whisky that spent to long in a barrel for its own good, what i would like to try to understand is how do these guys actually get away with bottling this muck and selling it a premium!

Any thoughts on this?

Im of back to this bar tonight to try some "local whisky" the barman told me that the country now has 5 whisky distilleries(unverified) 1 more than Ireland, who would have thought that Holland could do this!

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Hey Michael,

1250+ whiskies Where is this wonder of Wonders as I pop over to Holland fairly regularly. Is it L&B by any chance?

[John]

This is something I've often wondered about too. Most of the major Independents now only offer obscure bottlings of the less well-marketed brands. Argument being that the stronger the brand the less reliance they will have on the independents to move their stock or compete with a release that the distillery itself is releasing. From the distillery's perspective I can't imagine them offering their finest casks of their distillations to another brand - even if there is a meek attribution of the origin of the spirit on the bottle. Clearly the only motivation is to secure a high return on a cask - and if you look at ANY of the recent 'Manager's Choice' releases, this higher cost is definitely reflected in the much higher sales price and 'superpremium' descriptors! (Mortlach 1997 £235, Glen Elgin £212, Oban 2000 £255, etc, etc.)

Another issue I have, Ally raised it also, is that I believe the law of diminishing marginal returns must apply to many of the 'over-aged' casks, take for example DL's Old Malt Cask series. We all know that the liquid will to various extents be influenced by the wood in which it is stored, but there must come a point when the wood ceases to yield any futher influence - it is an organic product after all. When the curve turns therefore, surely the leachables then influence the liquid in a negative way?

[JohnM]

I've had a few Cadenheads and a few Single Malts of Scotland that are very good, in my opinion of course.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Not sure if I would knock Indy's as quickly but then I do tend to stay away from the more expensive bottles. It to me is really dependent on distillery. Obviously closed distilleries are a finite item so possibly with small but popular distilleries the stuff is running out and some bottlers are only left with the dregs are left.

This does not excuse the practice of releasing anything.

Port Ellen seems to be the exception. Some great whiskey still coming from the indy's here but there is a huge premium on Port Ellen eventhough it is thought that there is still plenty more port ellen maturing that diageo know what to do with. But like Ardbeg it has become a cult distillery and Diageo are milking it.

Further it is not just closed distilleries.

Glenrothes for me always has been a very dodgy distillery to buy from an Indy however I'd nearly prefer to buy Highland Parks as independents as they have great charachter.

But I agree with John the big boys have pulled back big time on releasing any more casks to the indy's. Cadenheads still seem to have a very diverse stock list though. Remember the top distilleries fly off thre cadenhead shelves in the first place so when they release a single cask it is very soon gone.

Lastly I find Cadenheads to be generally of high quality and they are one of my favourite Indy's.

[jcskinner]

Cadenhead's bottlings also seem to accrue or hold value better than other independent bottlers (apart from our opposite number, the SMWS, who have a ready made fanbase for their bottlings.)
Have to say, what little experience I've had with indies has been good. I've a 14 yo single bourbon cask Glenfarclas open at the moment and it's unexceptional, lacking for me the sherry oomph of the distillery bottling.
But I also have a decent 11 yo Bowmore from Cooper's Choice which does great justice to their spirit for a very reasonable price, and a genuinely lovely 8 yo rum-finished Islay which was bottled for some Germans that I'm sadly racing through (I suspect it may be Caol Isla in the bottle, but I've had no joy finding out for sure - better keep drinking!)
I've heard good things about the Old Malt Cask range. They've been going for decades so they must be doing something right. At least I hope so, because I shelled out a pretty significant amount of cash on a 36 yo Dallas Dhu today from their range!

[Whiskey Pilgrim]

Kaixo Guys,
The simple answer is their a place in this world for both.Fado Fado when the Distilleries would only present chilled filtered vatted expressions,it was the Independents such as Cadenhead,Signatory etc who broke ground and presented us the great unwashed with un chilled filtered, single casks,select casks etc.Their are other new kids on the block who are trying to cash in on this tradition with inferior products however.
Often the independents identify a sub market quicker than the Distilleries with various degrees of success.Interesting innovative people like the easy drinking co with their 3 products (Irish/Scots Smooth Sweeter one)went by the wayside even with an ex Mcallan blender at the helm.Knappogue are doing very well and lets see hows gos for the Irishman,Feckin Irish or Wildgeese.But at least these people are going where no whiskey person has gone before, new frontiers etc (ok a hangup from my trekkie days) but get my drift...
The industry would give its left one for a new way to promote and market whiskey,
I´m all for new expressions lets see if the aloof Scotch whisky society can keep their mits off and let other people do what clearly cannot do,,"Promote whisk(e)y"....Slainte !!