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'Pure Pott Still Whiskey'

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'Pure Pott Still Whiskey'

Postby jcskinner » Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:09 pm

Image

What is a pott still anyway? God only knows what's in this muck.
Is it not time that IDL sought DOC status from the EU for pot still whiskey?
Or should we not protect the value of our heritage alcohol in the same manner that continental countries do?
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Re: 'Pure Pott Still Whiskey'

Postby Luke Gough » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:22 am

Mmmm... The term 'Pure Pot Still' is disputed as I understand it.

"Irish Pot Still" or perhaps "Green and Malted Pot Still"?

Mmmm... God, those are Ugly!

Any better suggestions would be appreciated.
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Re: 'Pure Pott Still Whiskey'

Postby Michael Foggarty » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:21 pm

i do believe i seen this in a bar last night, i will give it a try tonight
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Re: 'Pure Pott Still Whiskey'

Postby IainB » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:28 am

Has anyone actually tasted this? For all we know it could be fantastic. It could be the pure pot still we've all been waiting for!

Seriously though if we try to protect the "pure pot still" tag could Scotland not try to protect the "single malt" tag? Where would that leave 2/3rds of our distilleries?

It would be interesting to know how it's made and what it's like. If I recall correctly there was an Eddu which was distilled in a pot still which used a mix of malted an unmalted buckwheat in it's mashbill. Is there any reason this couldn't be called a pure pot still?
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Re: 'Pure Pott Still Whiskey'

Postby jcskinner » Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:20 pm

No, Scotland could not protect single malt as a term. 'Scotch' on the other hand...
The issue here is that this is a product with a defined history and traditional artisanal creation method located in a defined geographical area - ie Ireland.
The belated emergence of bullshit like the bottle above is very recent, and a clear attempt to universalise the term in a similar way to single malt.
Pure pot still whiskeys are a traditionally Irish product, and the distinction between them and even Scotch whisky goes back at least a century or two.
You're right to say that currently there is nothing stopping anyone anywhere in the world from bottling anything they like and calling it pure pot still.
But good luck to anyone trying to bottle a fizzy white wine and calling it Champagne if they're not a designated winery from that area of Northern France.
Maybe it's just my idealism, but I don't understand why our heritage products should be bastardised the world over when other EU countries wouldn't countenance it happening to theirs.
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Re: 'Pure Pott Still Whiskey'

Postby IainB » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:23 pm

Fair enough but I suppose one could argue that the term Pure Pot Still is a description of the manufacturing process as much as the place of origin. Yes I'm all in favour of protecting our heritage but sometimes I think these things can be taken too far. For example the SWA attempting to prevent a Canadian, and an Irish distillery from using the word Glen.

I think it would be useful if the term pure pot still was defined in the context of Irish whiskey. The protection comes from the "Irish whiskey" tag, with the appropriate explanation of the type of whiskey attached, be it PPS, Single Malt or blend.

I don't think the comparisson to Champagne is the same thing at all. This is a specific place. If an Austrian whiskey producer attempted to call a product Dublin whiskey then I could see a problem.

I don't think this is an EU issue. It's more an issue of lack of interest in one of our domestic industries, over a long period of time, by pretty much every government since the foundation of the state!
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Re: 'Pure Pott Still Whiskey'

Postby IrishWhiskeyChaser » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:19 pm

I kinda agree with you Iain ... even the scotch industry back in the old says have been known to use the term Pot Still (but not with oure) to describe their product. It was a way of highlighting that their whiskey (Now known as single malt) was better spirit made in a pot still rather than a patent still produced whiskey or cheap blend.

However I believe it is the Irish Whiskey industry it's self that have let this slide. However I don't think it is an issue for any government to create a legal definition but for the industry to push for it which they are obviously not interested in doing.

For me with the amalgamation of the Irish Whiskey Industry into IDL created a seige mentality. This was probably a correct course of action back in the 60's but we have a modern dynamic world but IDL seem determined to stick with their mono direction of Jameson. Until the attitudes on Irish Whiskey change in IDL things will stay pretty much the same for a long time.
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Re: 'Pure Pott Still Whiskey'

Postby jcskinner » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:19 pm

Yes, I believe the running for a DOC application to the EU would probably have to come from a distiller (in this case IDL) or from the relevant government department here.
I think DOC-ing the term 'Irish Pure Pot Still' or 'Irish Pot Still' whiskey would be really useful as it would help identify and associate this particular and superlative style of whiskey with its place of origin, and would help the industry here in distinguishing itself from the Scotch behemoth as an alternative location of whiskey heritage and quality.
It might also inspire Cooley, Bushmills or others to bring more PPS whiskeys to market.
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Re: 'Pure Pott Still Whiskey'

Postby Fionnán » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:05 am

I'm a little late to this discussion i'm afraid but I certainly agree with jc's view that there ought to be some sort of legal clarification established to protect the notion of PPS whiskey as whiskey made from a mixed malted/unmalted mash run through a pot still. As I'm sure you all agree, the style itself is a national treasure with its own tremendous flavour possibilities and, without a protected definition, it's re-growth and development will continue to be repeatedly undermined by bottlings like "Locke's Pure Pot Still Single Malt" etc that distort this definition and prevent the casual public from becoming more aware of it. With Kilbeggan producing again and the Dingle project underway, this century has begun with a much kinder start for Irish Whiskey than its predecessor and the sheer establishment of this society is a testiment to Irish Whiskey's reemergence from what IrishWhiskeyChaser so appropriately called the 'siege mentality' of the post downfall IDL years. It is vital at this early stage that the industry itself make legal clarifications about labeling and content if we are to see the diversity of Irish whiskey preserved and enriched.

However petty the SWA may be (and yes, they're a pretty petty bunch), they've done excellent things for Scotch whisky by using protected terms and specifications to preserve specific styles and to ensure that you know exactly what you're getting in the bottle. For example, when I buy a "Famous Grouse Blend" I know that its a mixture of different malt and grain whiskies whereas when i buy a "Famous Grouse Malt," I know full well that its a vatted malt because they havent been allowed to label it as a single malt. And yes, we all know that "Single Malt" itself is a rather novel term in the wider history of whiskey but it does its job and it does that job well. If the term PPS needs to be replaced for something that's more literally exclusive, i'd be rather sad to see it go because of its historical association, but i'd rather that then the current state of affairs.

Personally, I think that the apologist argument that "Pure Pot Still" still applies to single malts because they are "purely made in a pot still" and thus conform to the literal wording is a bit ridiculous as, in truth, all cultural terminology of any sort is established through the arbitrary association between a phrase and its historically implied meanings rather than through the jigsaw application of all of a phrase's possible meanings to all of the possible employments. For example, almost all single malt scotches are made through the mixing of the contents of separate casks to establish consistency. This means that they're being blended together, right? so why not call them blends? Should two grain whiskeys mixed together make a blended whiskey? No, and its the acceptance of this set vocabulary that allows both the industry and its consumers to move forward and explore the variety of each style's flavor possibilities on their own terms.

I also agree with JC that the establishment of a set PPS qualification and a subsequent broadening of the public consciousness of the style as a distinct alternative to the single malt might encourage distilleries such as Cooley and Bushmills to produce PPS expressions of their own (Bushmills of course even have an old historical connection to the style.) At such a promising time for Irish whiskey, such a diversification of the PPS whiskeys generally available would go a long way to giving this most peculiarly Irish style a place on the same international stage that Single Malts have stepped onto in the last 20 or so years.
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Re: 'Pure Pott Still Whiskey'

Postby Fionnán » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:46 am

In addition, I agree that the push for a maintained standard definition probably has to come from inside the industry itself. Unless i'm mistaken, IDL have never really made an effort to get a legal definition affixed to the phrase and, to be honest, despite being its only current producers i feel that they tend to seriously neglect it in favor of their mainstream blends. If the Dingle group are as intent on producing PPS as they say they are, than maybe the initiative will come from them, although the last information i heard from them was in a prospectus (discussed in the Dingle Distillery topic) that seemed to blur the terminology line in the opposite direction.

As for the national specifications, i'd be far more worried about a legal name for the style itself than its origins. I'd fully support legal restrictions on "Irish Pure Pot Still" in the same way that there are restrictions on "Single Malt Scotch" but i think the most pressing issue vis-a-vis the term itself is to standardize its production implications rather than its origins. (for example, Cooley's "Magiligans Pure Pot Still" is a thoroughly Irish product but if someone in a remote country distilled whiskey from a mixed mash of malted and unmalted barley in a pot still, i'd consider the latter a true PPS long before the former.) Curiously enough, I was flipping through Charles MacLean's history on Scotch whisky the other night and he mentioned that, aside from all the Scottish stuff that was dubiously run through Irish customs houses and then shipped out as Scotch, there were a few genuine expressions of Pure Pot Still whiskey made in the lowlands by distillers trying to meet the demand for the drink back in its 1860s heyday. Specifically, Caledonian, which at the time was the second largest column still grain distillery in Scotland, installed two pot stills in 1867 specifically for the production of PPS whiskey from a mixed malted and unmalted mash etc. Even before that time, it seems to have been quite common in the lowlands during the late 1700s to have used mixed mashes in their stills. In "The Wealth of Nations" for example, Scotland's own Adam Smith talks about the lowland industry by remarking that "In what one called malt spirits, it [malt] makes but a third part of the materials; the other two thirds being raw barley or one third barley and one third wheat." I remember hearing that the original Irish PPS whiskeys sometimes used other grains than barley in the unmalted section of the mash which seems rather similar to Smith's description. Anyway, just an odd historical point that i found interesting
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