Is there anything else like Irish pot still?

[William J]

This article from Jim Murray suggests that authentic Canadian blended rye whiskey is the closest thing to Irish pot still. Can anyone else confirm this? And if so, what is a good bottle to look for, aside from the Canadian Club Black Label 8 yo that Murray mentions?

The Inimitable Irish Spirit, Jim Murray, 1994: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_waTG ... XR1ZzNQcmM

A few months ago I happened to try Jameson at a bar and pretty much overnight converted from being a beer/wine guy to a whiskey drinker. I also began a quest to discover why I liked Jameson so much, when I'd tried plenty of whisky over the years and never thought much of it. Turns out it's the pot still that really excites my taste buds.

Since then I've been on a quest to find whisk(e)y that has a similar taste. Nothing comes close to expressing the savoury, brittle and utterly compelling flavour of malted and unmalted barley distilled in copper pot stills but there is some scotch that I find appealing, usually non-peated and a little on the sweet side (such as Glenrothes).

Can anyone recommend other whisky that might appeal to a person who really prefers Powers and Redbreast to Glenfiddich and Laphroaig?

After exhausting the local selection of Irish whiskey I've begun trying single malts with some good success, but I can't sustain the rapid pace of buying new bottles anymore and need to cut to the chase. Obviously, everyone's tastes are different but surely we all share something in common by our fascination with the topic of this forum? So what do you drink when you don't drink Irish whiskey?

[Joel1802]

I'm a malt man who switched. That isn't to say I am exclusively PPS, but it takes up must of my energy now. There doesn't seem to be anything "like" pps, but a wheated bourbon like Maker's Mark or Old Weller has some similarities to it.

[Fionnán]

nothing in the world like it, although i might be a fair bit biased...

[Fionnán]

in all sincerity though WIlliam, I dont think Murray's really contending that Rye and SPS taste' similar (they dont), it's just a slight technical coincidence (he could just as easily, for example, have said pot still's closest relative is the single malt as they're both made from barley and distilled in pot stills) i think the point he wanted to make is that single pot still whiskey's fairly unique. Which Powers are you drinking? If it's the standard, which is a blend with a whopping big pot still content in it, you may very well enjoy Powers John's Lane, which is the pure pot still equivalent. It didnt exist when Murray wrote that article but i'm sure i'm not the only one on this forum who would put it right alongside Redbreast and Green Spot as an Irish whiskey classic. If you're living outside of Ireland, Celticwhiskeyshop.com is a good place to order from as they ship. hope that helps

[William J]

Thanks for your replies.

Joel, I have Maker's Mark and Weller is next on my list for a bourbon. From reading I could tell that wheated bourbons would probably be my preference since they tend to be a bit sweeter and less peppery. Thanks for the suggestions.

Fionnán, I purchased a John's Lane fairly soon after discovering Redbreast and Green Spot. It didn't last very long on the shelf and I haven't replaced it as there was only one bottle in all of Wellington (although I’m told more is on order). Regular Powers is more widely available and drinking that night after night gave me a lot of insight into pot still characteristics. It's tasty stuff but that John's Lane had a wonderful old tobacco/leather element that was a real joy to savour. I guess that comes from the oak?

I also have a bottle of Yellow Spot that my wife brought to me from Maison du Whisky in Paris. Haven't opened it yet as I'm not sure I'll be able to replace it so I'm waiting as long as I can before taking a sip. It's pretty special stuff (from all that I've read) and I really hope it's released more widely.

As you both have said, there's really nothing else like it. The flavour is one thing, but the texture is something else entirely and seems to me is what really makes pot still stand out. It's hard for me to believe that for awhile Green Spot was the only pure pot still available. How could something so good be neglected by the masses? It's a shame that malted barely has held such dominance over the whisky industry. There must be all sorts of wonderful flavours waiting to be re-discovered by distilling different grains along with the malt.

My last purchase was heavily discounted bottle of 18 yo Famous Grouse, bought for the equivalent of 40 euros at a tiny bottle shop that had reopened after being closed for over a year. I've never had any Famous Grouse offerings before so was taking a bit of a gamble I suppose. There weren't many reviews of it online, but it's a vatted malt made up of Macallan and Highland Park (never tried those either) so I was hoping for something good. What a surprise then to find hardly any peat and loads of lovely vanilla and toffee flavours. Really satisfying and easy to drink, and makes me want to try their 12 yo, which is a blend with grain.

Joel, since you were a malt man, can you name a few single malts that share some of the same flavours as Irish pot stills? Or can you suggest any blends that might be similar to the Famous Grouse? There's some Mackinlay's Original on the shelf here that I'm keen to try, but I'm a bit hesitant because I don't know if it's smokey. Nothing wrong with some peat smoke but it's not my favourite. Has anyone had Mackinlay's Original? What about Bells?

After my unexpected affection for Famous Grouse (the 18 yo anyway) I'm wondering if maybe I should be looking at blends.

If Powers is the no. 1 seller in Ireland, and Famous Grouse is no. 1 in Scotland, and I believe Bells is number 1 in England, maybe I should buy a bottle of Bells next?

Any other suggestions you may have are greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[Joel1802]

I've never been a great one for blends, but I've never been too good to swill some Bell's if that's what's on. I used to like the one called Islander (I think) had a bit more peat than the regular. Don't think they make it anymore though.

As far as malt whisky similar to PPS, I don't think you'll find anything too close. Bladnoch could be a nice place to start, or Rosebank, or Bushmills. Might just be better to look at it in isolation. Try a few different ones in a pub to start defining your arcs of fire and go from there. Just mind how you go, you can start obsessing about this stuff.

[William J]

Thanks, Joel.

If we all agree there's nothing else quite like PPS then I guess my question is where's a good place to start branching out. I've seen Bladnoch around and I'll keep an eye out for Rosebank. I've had black and white Bush, and their 10 yo. If I ever saw their 16 I'd buy that, but I probably can't afford the 21 yo.

You're exactly right about needing to define my exploration and slowly I'm beginning to do this as I taste more widely. I'm limited only by the money tree out back that never seems to flourish the way I'd like it to (what season are they supposed to flower?). Thankfully it doesn't cost anything to read. The net is full of tasting notes and blogs. I've borrowed every book on the subject at the local library, and discovered the Book Depository for everything else. Obsessed much? The only thing frightening was how quick it happened! It literally was overnight in mycase; happened to try Jameson at a bar one night, next day bought a bottle, and now I spend my days sifting through forums and reading tasting notes. Biding my time until the evening when I can pop the cork and begin the journey all over again.

Sláinte!

[Joel1802]

Rosebank is a bit dear as it closed in 1993. Bladnoch for sure. Over the years as my budget has grown I've learned that it is never enough, but it does go further with Irish whiskey.

[William J]

I agree, seems like Irish is by far the best value. Japanese whisky is on the other end of the spectrum (here in NZ at least). Although I've never tried it, from what I've read it can be great but no more so than a lovely single malt or SPS.

A worrying trend that "never quite enough". I must be careful developing tastes that exceed my means. Probably should've started with the NAS Grouse, instead jumping straight to the 18. But the price was right and there's not enough time in this world to be satisfied with mediocrity. The trick is to find the best value, and to shop for the best price. One thing that surprises me is that no two shops charge the same price for a given whiskey. It pays to shop around. And getting a sweet deal only enhances the taste of the malt, doesn't it?

[Joel1802]

Indeed it does, and I may just have come across a great one, I'll see if it is true in the morning! The only thing that is better than good whisk is cheap free good whisky.

The Japanese ones are very good the one I'd go for is Yamazaki 18 as it has a portion aged in Japanese oak which gives it a very unique flavour. Sandal wood and some exotic spices found nowhere else. Most Japanese malts could hide amongst there Scottish counterparts in a blind tasting and very few indeed would notice.

[Pudge72]

Indeed it does, and I may just have come across a great one, I'll see if it is true in the morning! The only thing that is better than good whisk is cheap free good whisky.

The Japanese ones are very good the one I'd go for is Yamazaki 18 as it has a portion aged in Japanese oak which gives it a very unique flavour. Sandal wood and some exotic spices found nowhere else. Most Japanese malts could hide amongst there Scottish counterparts in a blind tasting and very few indeed would notice.

I will add a vote for the Yamazaki 18, if you decide to pick up a Japanese at some point. It is complex and wonderful with both bourbon and sherry cask influences (along with the Japanese oak also mentioned) that make it a worthwhile purchase...though it is getting harder to find, and more expensive.

Enjoy the journey (though I will also echo the 'it's never enough' sentiment...budgeting is a key )

[William J]

I need to get a line on some of that good free whisky of which you speak :)

So that's two votes for the Yamazaki 18, which means I'd be wise move it to the top of my list, since I've been meaning to get a Japanese but haven't been able find the right one. Sandal wood and exotic spices sounds like just thing I've been looking for... I'll bet it's not cheap though! Not here in NZ in any case. Did you see the price I paid for that 'heavily discounted' bottle of Famous Grouse 18 yo ? [€40]

I'm also having to contend with the arrival of summer and the fact that some of my whisky seems out of place when the temperature starts to climb. Not that it climbs all that high here in Wellington. And to be honest, you can find yourself in the middle of a winter storm here no matter what the season, which is why the heavier ales and whiskeys are never far away or out of place (hey, this is the roaring forties and Antarctica is one our closest neighbors). That's not to say there isn't room for some lighter spirits on the shelf.

I've never had to use ice in my tumbler here though that's for sure. Grew up under the shadow of the Virginia Gentleman distillery (before it moved to Fredericksburg) and the summer heat there would make you hard pressed to want to drink anything that wasn't ice cold. Which I guess is why a lot of bourbon drinkers do use ice, and why most bourbons are sold at a higher proof.

If you're in the UK or Ireland though you'll be sharing a similar climate as here so I wonder what summer whiskeys you choose to drink? I think the Cooley blends and malts are quite well suited with their intense fruit and fresh citrus tang flavours but I'm less familiar with a good scotch for when it hots up a little.

Anyway, it's late Spring today with a bright crystal clear sky, the temps are in the upper teens and this Paddys with its light grassy freshness is just the thing for me.

Kia kaha

[Joel1802]

From what I've been told the climate here in Victoria is about the same, my mum & dad went to U of Otago by the way. For our Summers I like Redbreast (all seasons) Bladnoch, Rosebank, Bushmills 10, Old Weller, and the list goes on. I found Yellow Spot does very well in the Los Angeles heat in July too.

At the risk of being labelled a heretic a nice pot still Jamaican rum like Appleton reserve is a bloody good drink too!

Don't talk to me about prices, BC stands for Bring Cash!

P.S. How about Milford?

[JohnM]

Anyone ever taste Eddu Silver?

[IainB]

I have a bottle for a while bit I''ve never got around to opening it. Must do so one of these days. Isn't it made with buckwheat. I read somewhere that strictly speaking buckwheat isn't a grain so they're pushing the definition. By calling it whisky. Now I know nothing about buckwheat so I could be completely wrong on this.

[William J]

Never had Eddu but by the looks of it I should; review on whisky mag sounds delicious and if it has buckwheat then I'm even more intrigued.

Also never been to Victoria BC but I would imagine the two capitals share very similar climates. In fact, Otago is at nearly the same latitude south as Victoria is north. Unfortunately I've never had Dunedin's Milford whisky though. So far the only dud in my collection is the NZ doublewood 10 yo that won that fake competition in Mchigan, the whisky Olympics it was called, I think. That doublewood got gold but I wasn't all that impressed. Maybe Milford is better. Have you tried it?

Not so long ago I tasted rum that was locally made and was surprised at how similar it tasted to some whiskey. I will be price checking that Appleton reserve if I ever come across it. Same goes for the Bladnoch and old Weller.

Having some friends around tonight for a tasting and I think this might just qualify for a sufficient occasion to open that Yellow Spot. I nearly popped it on tuesday but held back.

At the end of the day though I'm really not all that picky. If a whisky is what's called for I would gladly sip just about any thing (except if it were that doublewood I probably wouldn't have seconds :)

In any case it's a gray day here and not all that summery so to look on the bright side there's nothing standing in the way of drinking whatever feels right. Hoping to convert another beer drinker tonight, wouldn't you employ a Yellow Spot if that's what it took?

[Joel1802]

Insert launch keys, push button, deploy Yellow Spot. If he makes a face question his manhood until he says it's good.

I do intend to get to NZ in the next five years or so, wait till the kids are a bit older though.

I find most spirits aged in oak get more alike as they get older because of the oak influence. Old whisky, rum, cognac, and calvedos all have a great deal in common. That isn't to say they are all the same, but the differences become fewer.

[bredman]

I agree, seems like Irish is by far the best value. Japanese whisky is on the other end of the spectrum (here in NZ at least). Although I've never tried it, from what I've read it can be great but no more so than a lovely single malt or SPS.

Hi William. Put simply Japanese whisky is made in the styles of Scotch. Scotch style malts and blends also. That was always the intention tbh. Over the years due to their philosophy of perfection, they have removed the cereal flavours from their malts, almost completely. This makes for a good consistent product imo. There are fewer distilleries obviously, but their best whiskies rivals that of Scotland. And their worst do also.

If you enjoy the mouthfeel from sharper more lively whiskies then i'd suggest Yamazaki 10 or 12 (the 12 is superb). Hakushu 12 is also a wonderful whisky, more delicate and elegant. If either of the two 12yo aren't quite what your after (with regard to PPS style) they are still top notch whiskies.

As for other malts, Rosebank and Bladnoch have already been mentioned. Perhaps Tomintoul 14, IB Scapa, Aberfeldy 12, Glencadam 10, even Pulteney 12. I've also had Glen Grants with a nice lively edge to the barley.

So many whiskies out there, so little time.

[William J]

I'm still getting acquainted with 'cereal flavours' and so I'm not entirely sure what this refers to. Is it like the biscuity notes that some whisky exhibits?

Also curious about this lively edge to the barley that you refer to, and the associated mouthfeel. I've heard this referenced elsewhere but I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean. Is this the brittle bite that often comes with pot stills, which sometimes feels thick enough to chew?

Anyway, you've said some Japanese whisky show signs of this and if we're talking about the same thing then I most certainly am going to enjoy this Yamazaki 12 yo that I just bought. The 18 isn't available in the shops here so the 12 is all I've got to go on, and considering all of the positive comments you all have made there's a good chance I'm going to love it. Even though this was a blind buy (I've never even tasted a Japanese whisky before let alone these Yamazakis everyone's talking about) I'm feeling confident I have a winner.

Many thanks for the other suggestions, too. Pulteney has been on my radar for awhile now and given the context of your suggestion here I think it just moved a good way up the list :)

It's a shame about the price though. I have read the Yamazaki 12 is a good value buy, but like so many spirits here in NZ the price I paid was way above those I see quoted in the US and UK. Still, it was the cheapest Japanese malt of the bunch (which included a Hibiki 17, Yoichi 12, and a little 500 ml bottle in a brown non-descript box). Considering New Zealand and Japan share the same ocean and shipping charges here shouldn't be much beyond what they are to the US, it would be nice if Japanese whisky was priced accordingly. Considering the price it seems like we are importing these Japanese malts from Europe! Enough complaining though, I'm just glad I could find a bottle. And with international shipping options I can always import some myself if I'm willing to pay.

Joel, NZ is an excellent country to visit. There's heaps to do and the scenery is stunning, but I agree, probably better to wait until the kids will remember it more. I don't know how old yours are but it's a bit of a toss up between the cheap air fare for under 2's and the fact that they probably won't remember the trip!

And regarding that tasting recently; I had them hooked with Locke's 8 yo so Yellow Spot was never required (sadly, I was really looking forward to tasting it). But I did get the opportunity to try Glenmorangie again and was reminded of how good it tastes as a summer sipper.

[bredman]

Also curious about this lively edge to the barley that you refer to, and the associated mouthfeel. I've heard this referenced elsewhere but I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean. Is this the brittle bite that often comes with pot stills, which sometimes feels thick enough to chew?

Yes, it's not quite the same as the "brittle" nature of pot still Irish but, for me, it has a similar effect of having a refreshing, or lively kick on the palate. I don't mean "hot" as in youngish poorly balanced whisky. Some may describe it as a fizz perhaps. If you're looking for a sps substitute you're not likely to find it, but you will find certain aspects of it here and there. In triple distilled Scotch for example, such as Rosebank and Hazelburn, and to a lesser degree Auchentoshan.

Personally i'm a fussy whisk(e)y drinker, anything that seems to deaden my palate, or close off my taste buds i recoil from. For this reason i don't enjoy Laga 16, or Talisker 10 (two big favorites for everyone else), and heavy sherry i can have problems with, although not always. I remember having a pop at Redbreast 12 on here ( ) once, for some reason i just don't get the flavours. When we say "whisky enjoyment is subjective" there is never a truer word spoken.

I also have a Yama 12 waiting, a lovely dram. Although that's no guarantee you will enjoy it. But i hope you do -- cheers.

[Joel1802]

Yes, and generally as you go you'll know the cereal flavours when you taste them. You might look for a nosing/tasting guide or spread sheet as that could be helpful to jog your memory.

I've not had Milford by the way, but it sounds Lowland-like.

As far as waiting for the kids, it might just be until they are old enough to pawn off on family while we head off without them.

[JohnM]

I have also heard that a Scottish distillery makes a pure pot still, but does not advertise the fact. I have no idea if this is true. Maybe they'd have to say if they produced such a a whisky, given the laws over there. Or they could just use it for blending and say it's a grain.

Raymond at Bladnoch has considered making some.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Personally i'm a fussy whisk(e)y drinker, anything that seems to deaden my palate, or close off my taste buds i recoil from. For this reason i don't enjoy Laga 16, or Talisker 10 (two big favorites for everyone else), and heavy sherry i can have problems with, although not always. I remember having a pop at Redbreast 12 on here ( ) once, for some reason i just don't get the flavours. When we say "whisky enjoyment is subjective" there is never a truer word spoken.

I also have a Yama 12 waiting, a lovely dram. Although that's no guarantee you will enjoy it. But i hope you do -- cheers.

I'm a bit like you bred, just on the other side ... Really love The sherry influence but have found in the last while that bourbon barrel is becoming very samey for me. Obviously every distillery has a different carachter and can be poles apart but I am finding it hard of late to get past the gin like dryness I get from a lot of them in the finish. Yet I revel in the deep fruit complexity of sherry and other fortified wine matured whiskies.

[Joel1802]

Personally i'm a fussy whisk(e)y drinker, anything that seems to deaden my palate, or close off my taste buds i recoil from. For this reason i don't enjoy Laga 16, or Talisker 10 (two big favorites for everyone else), and heavy sherry i can have problems with, although not always. I remember having a pop at Redbreast 12 on here ( ) once, for some reason i just don't get the flavours. When we say "whisky enjoyment is subjective" there is never a truer word spoken.

I also have a Yama 12 waiting, a lovely dram. Although that's no guarantee you will enjoy it. But i hope you do -- cheers.

I'm a bit like you bred, just on the other side ... Really love The sherry influence but have found in the last while that bourbon barrel is becoming very samey for me. Obviously every distillery has a different carachter and can be poles apart but I am finding it hard of late to get past the gin like dryness I get from a lot of them in the finish. Yet I revel in the deep fruit complexity of sherry and other fortified wine matured whiskies.

I love the sherry influence as well, which begs the question: when will Middleton release a single sherry cask?!

[William J]

After tasting the Yamazaki 12 yo last night I can honestly say that stuff has my undying support. Very drinkable and disarming, and yet with enough subtlety and character to be compelling to a similar degree as Irish pot still whiskey. I think I've found the first whisky that shares something in common with pot still whiskey, even though like many have said there isn't really anything that's the same. I'm not getting the same edge or fizz of a pot still but this Yamazaki does have a chewy, vanilla / toffee texture that's heavy and hits my palate the same way. It's the closest I've come yet, and marks a real milestone for me as I've been hunting for a related whisky ever since stumbling upon pot still in the first place. Many thanks to all who provided some input. I believe Irish pot still is the best match for my palate (most nights, anyway), so naturally I have been keen to find something similar, and now I have.

Joel, you mentioned the 18 year old displays sandalwood and exotic spices due to the wood used. I don't know if the 12 yo includes any of this wood but after some hand warming I was picking up something on the nose that I can only describe as 'sandalwood and exotic spice'. Really, it came to me by the end of the night. I certainly didn't pick up on it at first. And it was harder to find with the taste buds but the nose clearly had a different note that I found utterly appealing.

John, it would be great to see other distilleries experimenting with their own unmalted/malted barley whisky but yeah, unfortunately in Scotland that's against the law (literally, right?). Maybe once there becomes a bigger market for single grain whisky we will start seeing pure pot stills from other countries appearing on the shelves.

On the subject of sherry influence, have any of you tasted the Dunedin Doublewood 10 yo that seems to be making waves recently? I have a bottle of it, and my initial tasting fell very flat. I found it out of balance and heavy handed with cloying sweetness, but reports from elsewhere are that it is actually quite good, tying with JW Black in a recent blind tasting (not sure why those two were compared as they have very different profiles) with judges reportedly enjoying the 'weird bourbon/fruity notes'. To me it has more of a juicy, berry element that some sherry-influenced whiskies have.

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