Questions on Midleton/Jameson

[MyIrishHome]

I'm sitting here reading throw my notes for tomorrows whiskeytasting and drinking Greenore 6y, Tyrconnell, Redbreast 15y and Jameson. It will be the fifth this year with Ireland or Cooley as the theme. Irish whiskies are really growing also in Sweden. I have no figures for sales but say three years ago nobody asked me to hold a only Irish whiskey evening and no it will be the fifth this year (since start of April).

Anyway, there are some questions that have been raised during the tastings that I haven't known the answer for and of course I should have asked earlier.

Several blended brands are made down in Midleton such as Jameson, Tullamore, Powers and they are a mixed of what? To start are they using the same grain/pot still whiskey for all brands and mixing at different ratio and mature them different or are they making different ingredient whiskies for them? Do they produce some maltwhisky at Midleton? As far as I know nothing is bottled but maybe used in a blend?

Persons that have been to Jameson's in Dublin claim to have been teached that John Jameson invented trippel distillation. I have told with a lot more confidence then I have knowledge for that it's not so. Do we have a name for an inventor?

Also according to visitor at Bow Street it's is there where the practice of using not smoked grain by using closed chimneys. Is this true? Or just misunderstanding?

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Several blended brands are made down in Midleton such as Jameson, Tullamore, Powers and they are a mixed of what? To start are they using the same grain/pot still whiskey for all brands and mixing at different ratio and mature them different or are they making different ingredient whiskies for them? Do they produce some maltwhisky at Midleton? As far as I know nothing is bottled but maybe used in a blend?

This is a quite complicated process in one way. It is all done in the same stills but the multitude of distillate is quite diverse.

Firstly they can make different distillate by changing the Mash bill ratio of Malt to Barley. You can have ratios of 60:40 50:50 or 40:60, which is the beauty of the pot still distillate and single malt cannot replicate. These are just examples and not actual ratios but they do say that it is within that range. Then they can take different cuts from the distillation. Long cuts or short for lighter or heavier distillate. Then we have the cask management which is another element. Cask management is quite complex too. They will have all the different distilates in bourbon and sherry casks. Jameson has a portion of sherry. So all these variants help them to make quite different whiskeys.

Persons that have been to Jameson's in Dublin claim to have been teached that John Jameson invented trippel distillation. I have told with a lot more confidence then I have knowledge for that it's not so. Do we have a name for an inventor?

I cannot claim to know as to whether this is being said in the Old Jameson Distillery Visitor center however I would very much doubt the claim. I would imagine this is very hard to prove as the fact is it was a common process. I've certainly never heard it in any context in regards to Jameson before but as IDL Midleton was the sole surviving distillery in the republic of Ireland it would not surprise me if they started to believe that. It has always been a case that visitor center have a habit of going a bit over board on comments like this whether Irish or Scottish.

Also according to visitor at Bow Street it's is there where the practice of using not smoked grain by using closed chimneys. Is this true? Or just misunderstanding?

This is true, the kilns were very much like Scottish kilns but air vents around the chimney of the turf/peat or coal fire was the actual source of the hot air that dried the malt and the fire source chimey was channeled away from the drying floor. This was not unique to Jamesons though as all the big distilleries did similar.

[MyIrishHome]

Thanks for quick replay:

First of all. I know that there has been some issues about what Jameson say and not say. Just to make it clear, I do not claime that they are telling these things. We also have to bear in mind that there is a possibility that there has been a missunderstanding.

Back to Midleton: I'm fully aware of all the possibilities in changeing factors in the makeing of SPS but I also know the power of wood and how much you can alter the taste there. I take it from your answer that they are doing several diffrent versions. Do anybody know how many different versions.

While blending, let's say Jameson. Are they using only one type of SPS or do they alter there as well?

Finally. Redbreast, is that a SPS that goes in a specific blend as well?

Thanks for information.

/Uffe

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

Hi Uffe,

Don't worry I knew what you were saying in relation to the origination of triple distillation and that it was just something that someone heard. We've done it ourselves for years ... hearing something somewhere and suddenly it becomes fact. It could well even be just an overly enthusiastic tour guide. But an interesting question all the same but something I doubt we'd ever get to the bottom of. Remember there is (and was) triple distillation in Scotland too.

Midleton don't really give exact blend ratios so it really is only from snippets we hear that we piece together some information and even that can be off.

I believe there are different mash bill ratios for Jameson and Powers. I'm not 100% about Midleton Redbreast or Paddy.

Then we have the cut or heart of the distillate that is syphoned off for casking.

The main 2 used are Light Pot and Mod Pot (Moderate) distillate but I would imagine there may be a heavy pot also but have not heard much about it at all.

Then we have casking with Bourbon & Sherry being the obvious main casks used but they have port, Madeira and a multitude of other casks too as seen with the release of Yellow spot this year and the use of Malaga fino casks.

Then you have the rotation of cask usage. B0 (Zero) are actually in use and basically are bourbon virgin oak and currently use is very limited with a small proportion of this going into Jameson Gold. And B1 would be first fill bourbon and B2 Second Fill.

So they can use various combinations of those.

I know it does not answer you question but the one example I can give is Redbreast 12yo

It is said that it is roughly 1/3 Light Pot B1 1/3 Mod Pot B1 & 1/3 Light Pot S1 (Sherry)

[Pudge72]

A very interesting and informative discussion guys. Just one small question for clarification, Adrian...when you refer to B0 casks as 'bourbon virgin oak', am I correct in assuming that these are casks that have been filled/emptied one time with bourbon spirit and then sent to Ireland? Or are these unused casks sourced from American oak (that would normally go to bourbon production in the US) that are shipped directly to Ireland (either as raw timber for cask construction in Ireland, or as (partially)completed barrels that arrived in Ireland as finished or nearly finished casks?

Would B1 casks then be those that have held bourbon spirit once (B0) and then filled with Irish whiskey spirit once (B1)? I'm a technical moron when it comes to whisky production processes and terminology, so any information provided here is greatly appreciated.

[IrishWhiskeyChaser]

...when you refer to B0 casks as 'bourbon virgin oak', am I correct in assuming that these are casks that have been filled/emptied one time with bourbon spirit and then sent to Ireland? Or are these unused casks sourced from American oak (that would normally go to bourbon production in the US)
:

The latter, B0's are unused casks that have never held anything previously. However I cannot confirm if they are Americak Oak (Quercus alba) or European oak (Quercus robur). These would be made to order especially for Midleton with a specified charr and all.
They do very little of this though and as I said before is currently used very sparingly in Jameson Gold because of the big flavours.

There are no SWA rules here to prevent this which is a good thing as they can experiment more.

And of course you get the rest B1 First Fill , B2 Second Fill and so on but I don't think they go any further than second fill with Single Pot Still. They possibly go further with the grain but alot of grain is also matured in first fill for their premium brands.

Midleton really spend big money on their cask management and have done so for a long time. It is only now that we are really appreciating it, especially with all the new releases.

[Good Whiskey Hunting]

...when you refer to B0 casks as 'bourbon virgin oak', am I correct in assuming that these are casks that have been filled/emptied one time with bourbon spirit and then sent to Ireland? Or are these unused casks sourced from American oak (that would normally go to bourbon production in the US)
:

The latter, B0's are unused casks that have never held anything previously. However I cannot confirm if they are Americak Oak (Quercus alba) or European oak (Quercus robur). These would be made to order especially for Midleton with a specified charr and all.
They do very little of this though and as I said before is currently used very sparingly in Jameson Gold because of the big flavours.

I've made enquiries about this before, the virgin oak barrels used are all American Oak (Quercus alba)

[Pudge72]

Thanks for the additional info!!